How do I increase lip strength?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Vstern, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Hi Fraserhutch,
    The 7 combos is something I came up with and I apologize for the vagueness,
    The exercise goes like this. Slur as high and as low with a good sound as you can. I can not overstate the importance of only going as high as the sound will allow. Once the sound begins to sound pinched or strained, that's the border. In time, once they get the idea and the sound, the slurs can be like bugle calls, or whatever the person wants. Creativity is encouraged.
    The lip slurs need to be always soft, light and the sound needs to be free of raggedness.
    Do each valve for an "HONEST" one minute. slur as high and as low as the sound will permit in quarter or eighth notes.
    The Combo is as follows:
    0
    123
    13
    23
    12
    1
    2
    If this young person does this simple exercise every day, a minute on each valve, by the time New Year gets here, they will be a very happy camper. The down side is that it is a hard exercise in that it is physically demanding and requires concentration so mouthpiece pressure does not take over and the sound stays clean.
    Hope this helps
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010
    Alex_C likes this.
  2. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    practice soft long tones, take frequent breaks to allow your lips, face, body to recoop and resupply blood and oxygen during your practice. practice double and triple tonguing scales (clean attacks - not just how fast you are), obviously lip slurs. Don't push the A everyday - actually take a day of lighter practice in between heavier practice.

    ---let me say this, at 45 I'm a comebacker and quitting for 7 yrs - the first 4 months - I could pretty much only make C below the staff to C in staff "look EASY" -- then after a 16 months I could only make Low F# to that A above the staff "LOOK EASY" -- after 22 months it may be a little more ---- but the point being (I have put in almost 2000 hours in the last 22 months ---- the whole concept is that it is primarily NOT EASY, but consistent, diligent work

    be patient with yourself, work hard, and try to develop the Bigger picture --- YOU CAN GET THERE!! don't give up
     
  3. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

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    So these are glissando type exercises? or more like Iron exercises? Or is each and every one of the reps intended to run from the lowest fundamental for the given position to the highest?

    The 7 position thing is not my question- I starting doing that sort of thing over 30 years ago as a Claude Gordon student. Just trying to be clear about the exercise itself.

    Glissano exercises ala Frank Minear and harmonic slur exercises are totally different things in my experience, Just trying to get a feel for what you're after here.

    One of the things that helped me was the Minear method, which uses octave glissandos. that helped me learn the feel of tones above G over high C.

    However, fundamental flexibilities such as those found in the Claude Gordon and Colin texts are the ones that gave me my power.



     
  4. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Q)So these are glissando type exercises? or more like Iron exercises?
    ---
    A)gissandos are slurs?
    I can't relate it to another text but others might. I'm sure its not new, but its what I use on my students. I got the idea in 10th grade when I heard a killer trombonist named Rick Mason warming up. He would basically pick a position and do lip slurs on it and make little things up like doing octaves or 5ths, you get the idea.
    I guess if I had to credit anybody for this idea, it would be Rick Mason when I was back in high school.
    ----
     
  5. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

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    Absolutely, glissandos are a type of slur. Are they tongued? In fact, do the Irons quickly enough and the lip slurs become glissandos.

    Given the vast number of people who post authoritatively on any given subject around here despite obvious not having much experience themselves, I can never take any post at face value.

    I make the distinction in what I ask because there are any number of methods/exercises what not that present glissando-type exercises, and others that emphasize intervals and flexibility.

    I strongly suggest using Colin Flexibilities exercises.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  6. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    fraserhutch sez:
    Absolutely, glissandos are a type of slur. Are they tongued? In fact, do the Irons quickly enough and the lip slurs become glissandos.

    Given the vast number of people who post authoritatively on any given subject around here despite obvious not having much experience themselves, I can never take any post at face value.

    I make the distinction in what I ask because there are any number of methods/exercises what not that present glissando-type exercises, and others that emphasize intervals and flexibility.

    I strongly suggest using Colin Flexibilities exercises.[/quote]
    -----
    My response:
    Yes if you want to be particular, a glis is a type of slur. However, if you ask anybody (other than those who wish to display a sophomoric intelligence) what a slur is, they will tell you it's when a person goes from one note to another note without tonguing.
    This would make a tied note a slur, right?
    Get my point?
    -----
    Here's the problem with your glissandos as it pertains to the Post :
    Unless the individual is in the upper register where the partials are close, they will have to half valve in order to get a clean glissando effect. To give an example of this effect, possibly the best example of a glis (IMO) would be the Clarinet intro on Rapsody In Blue and yes, the clarinet's keys are manipulated.
    With a glis, the individual does not have to contend with the partials and everything is one long (or short if one wishes) rising or decending sound.
    My experience suggests that knowing how to get from one partial to another (and how to deal with the one's that aren't quite in tune) is a good thing to know whether they play classical or jazz.
    Yes, there are method books galore that will promise to increase this and increase that.
    I don't disagree with your recommendations of texts.
    I do however take issue with your statement "I can't take any post at face valve".
    A statement like that kinda makes me question your abilities given the exercise is so simple and, I'd bet variations of this exercise is probably found in dozens of well known books.
    ---
    What will this simple exercise do?:
    A) Save the Poster some money and get them the same effect.
    B) Help them achieve their goal of increasing lip strength.
    C) If they honestly do it, they will be significantly stronger in a season.
    ----------
    Also, you go on to say:
    "Given the vast number of people who post authoritatively on any given subject around here despite obvious not having much experience themselves"
    ----
    Oh damned, let me see.
    You seem to be skilled both academically and (hopefully) on the trumpet too. Since I'm just an ordinary person, maybe you can enlighten me.
    Can you tell me how doing what I recommended the Poster to do is going to:
    1)Harm the Poster?
    2)Not get them what they are trying to achieve if they follow the directions?
    3)How will the books (which I'm not knocking) get the individual to their goal quicker than the simple exercise I recommend?

    I really want to know as I'm always looking to learn.
    Thanks!
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Earl Irons wrote the book on slurs. Those exercizes are magic. Even my beginners use them.

    Slurs, long tones and scales are basic staple for trumpeters. I always want them first. Then comes a heavy dose of TUNES. at the end then technical studies.
     
  8. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

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    <EDIT Because I think the term gliss is giving you issues, here is a video of exactly what I mean by glissando range extension exercises:

    YouTube - pedal C to double C 4 octave glissando close up of my embouchure chops

    I was turned on to this by Greg Lyons and Rich Wetzel, both of who are proponents of the Frank Minear method, which happens to be based on this sort of stuff. I originally thought this was what you were getting at.
    /EDIT>

    A tied note is not a slur, but a gliss is. I don't get what you're getting at. To me, correct me if I'm wrong, but a gliss is a slur between two notes that includes all intermediate partials.

    Get My point??

    I can gliss cleanly from low C up to double C. They Irons text has exercises in it that advocate playing some of the exercises as glisses. The Frank Minear method includes exercises that gliss from low C up to double C.


    In fact, soft glisses have always been a good part of a range building regimen, to me at least. For a bit I thought that was what you were talking about, but I suppose I was wrong.

    I am not trying to display a sophomoric intelligence so please keep your petty insults to yourself. I was merely asking for a more exlicit. I was trying to discern the exercises you advocating from your description, since you won't spell them out in any detail.
    As I said,. I fully grasp the 7 position thing, and my feeble brain whose abilities you question barely grok the lip slur thing. Can you give a concrete example of it. Or s it nothing more than "moving down in the 7 positions, just make up little exercises where you slur from one partial to the other".

    Sophomoric? Hardly. Inquisitive, yes. I was hoping to learn something, but I guess I was wrong.

    Oh, and bite me. Glisses are slurs.

    Oh, and incidentally, when I was talking about "Given the vast number of people who post authoritatively" I wasn't specifically referring to you, I was talking about taking any post here on its face value. Get over yourself.

    I have no issue with you giving advice, or with anyone taking it. I am not advocating anyone here not use your advice. I was pointing the texts out ONLY because they illustrate what I was getting at when I was asking you whether your exercises were glissando types. Additionally, I advocate the use of certain texts because they have a proven track record.

     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  9. bumblebee

    bumblebee Fortissimo User

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    I don't know if this helps everybody but I feel I benefited from "the pencil exercise" which I first read about in Pops McLaughlin's tutorials.

    This is George Rawlin demonstrating:
    YouTube - Pencil exercise

    --bumblebee
     
  10. ska

    ska Pianissimo User

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    Estonia
    The only way I imagine to increase lip strength is to practice.

    Ofc, maybe there are such gyms out there that have weights produced for lip training - you place a half kilogram weight on your lip with some attachment and you move your lip up and down , do that with each lip, then lip push ups etc etc...ofc i'm joking what were you thinking? :D

    Just practice using the correct breathing - there really isn't more to it than that.
    some1 said dump the mute when you practice - well , yes and no, it's a matter of practice - to each their own.

    The thing that's gonna put your lips through the ringer is octave jumps and double octave jumps - slur them.

    Also now that I tihnk abou it - one must also know how much air they need for a set of notes they are going to play - for instance, in singing - I sing the 1st tenor , when I breathe in as much as I am going to need for that time and use the correct diaphragm support (yes there is a way to do it correctly and there is a way to do it wrong ) my vocal coords are not much affected by it when I sing high notes and even in falsetto. However, when I don't use the correct support and when I breathe in maybe a little too much or too little, I can feel how my vocal coords are being affected more by it than usual - at that moment I knew I was doing something wrong. I think the same applies to trumpet playing - from what I've discovered for myself thusfar, I don't need high pressure the higher I go, my lips are hermetically sealing the mouthpiece, the thing I do need is a correct torso support and the optimal volume of air. Once I feel my lips are getting blown away by it, I know I did something wrong - it doesn't mean I can go for hours and hours straight , but I can sustain a beautiful tone high notes for maximum an hour straight with the optimal support and air volume - given ofcourse a few moments of breaktime during the hour. The reason is that, although my lips are not getting really swollen, I utilise my side muscles alot more and it feels like kind of a cramp setting in.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2010

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