how fast is it possible for a trumpeter to tongue?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by _TrumpeT_, Jun 21, 2006.

  1. DLoeffler

    DLoeffler Pianissimo User

    Jul 16, 2005
    Columbia, South Carolina
    Yes it is a serious question and I was not trying to be a jerk about it in my earlier post. I put that out there because, I believe, most people will agree that the Ravel Piano Concerto in F is usually performed too quicly to cleanly single tongue or it is performed to slowly to cleanly double tongue.

    So, what would be the limit? The old recordings of Clarke are impressive as are the not as old recordings by Andre.

    However, once a speed limit has been established and everyone has finally caught up to it, someone else will come along and set a new speed limit.

    I say this next item will total sincereity and please someone correct this if it is too far off the deep end or really wrong. Maybe a medical doctor will be able to answer this for the following reason: The electrical impulse within the human body is limited in order for the impulse to leave the brain and cause the muscle to move without causing a "misfire", at least that is the way I am understanding how nerve impulses work. Therefore, would the speed of the tongue movement be limited to the the speed of the electrical impulse and the speed at which the muscle (tongue) can respond to that impulse? Again, any MDs out there, please correct, enlighten, what ever if this is too far off the beaten path.
  2. MahlerBrass

    MahlerBrass Piano User

    Oct 1, 2004
    Houston, TX
    As fast as Ravel makes us go?
  3. Derek Reaban

    Derek Reaban Mezzo Piano User

    Jun 16, 2005
    Tempe, Arizona

    David Hickman discusses this idea in his Trumpet Lessons Books. He mentions that the physical limit for single tongue speed is bounded by the speed of your flutter tongue. Clearly there is a large gap between the speed that most players are able to single tongue and the speed of the flutter tongue. However, some players fall into the ability for the tongue to ride on the air (almost in an involuntary way) but are still able to “control†this motion. Sixteenths at quarter = 160-180 are only possible if your tongue is riding on this airstream and you have disengaged from “trying†to control the tongue. I had a friend in college that could play in the 160 range! Woah!

    Time your flutter tongue and you’ll have your ultimate answer.
  4. _TrumpeT_

    _TrumpeT_ Piano User

    Apr 26, 2006
    Please forgive me if my question seemed really immature. I just couldn't resist asking. I constantly seem to be forgetting that playing trumpet is not a sport (it once was in Greece :shock: ) And I just couldn't seem to get it in my mind that there can be techniques which non-virtuosos can do but virtuosos can't. In other words, I seem to be forgetting the fact that virtuosity is not about techniques alone. I don't know, this might be the case with every instrument, but it especially seems to be the case with trumpets. There are probably hundreds of senseless sreamers who do something which the virtuosos can't. (I'm not criticising any high note artists but merely pointing out people who do nothing but play high unmusically).
  5. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    Sep 29, 2004
    Aw, c'mon, Trumpet... you say that like it's a bad thing.

  6. Jerry Freedman

    Jerry Freedman Piano User

    Mar 4, 2005
    There is a large physical element to playing trumpet and so it is not at all surprising that such questions turn up. I bet there are others --how about "How many times can someone do that Clarke exercise going from low G to high G and back in one breath". There is no pretense of music being made or trumpets played, just fun questions right up there with gold fish swallowing or hot dog eating.
  7. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    Sep 29, 2004
    NOW yer talking! Nathan's, anyone?

  8. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

    May 11, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    Hey Mr. Manny....

    Could you please tell me what you think is the fastest speed is that a person could play a two octave chromatic scale?

    Thanks in advance!!

  9. Alex Yates

    Alex Yates Forte User

    Aug 11, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Is that slurred or single-toungued? :lol:
  10. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    Sep 29, 2004
    I dunno... how much are ya payin'?


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