How is it possible to have two embouchures?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trmpt_plyr, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. trmpt_plyr

    trmpt_plyr Pianissimo User

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    There are many people with two embouchures. I sometimes even see people playing two trumpets at the same time, or people who switch when they have to play high notes. How is it possible to develop two?
     
  2. ChaseFan

    ChaseFan Banned

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    Having 2 embouchures is bad.

    For example, when playing scales from low notes to high notes,
    the player must stop at some mid-point to change from low-register embouchure to high-register embouchure
    and then resume playing the rest of the way up the scales into the high register.
    And the player will often have great difficulty playing any notes at all at that cross-over point bewteen the low-register embouchure and the high-register embouchure.
    Which is why there are some players who find it easier to play a Double High C than a High C, because the High C is at the cross-over point between the 2 embouchures.

    Having 2 embouchures for low register and high register also causes the player to have significant tone difference in the 2 registers, causing the player to sound like 2 different players when the player switches registers.

    By the way, simply increasing the upward or downward tilt of the trumpet while ascending scales is not a change of embouchure, but is instead a natural happening within a single embouchure.

    Dean
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I think there is a BIG misunderstanding what an embouchure is. It is not some fixed magic thing that is fantastic when you find just the right spot. It is a combination of things human that are not completely visible.

    Young or inexperienced players think that two slightly different angles, or a change in the proportion of upper to lower lip is an embouchure change. This is not necessarily true.

    One part of the embouchure is the general geometry, which like everything else human is subject to daily form. The next part is how the face muscles, tongue and breathing get synchronized. This in my opinion is the critical part. I can move the mouthpiece a couple of millimeters and still have EXACTLY THE SAME EMBOUCHURE if I have practiced and trained it properly.

    This is why I very often criticize embouchure discussions here. Without proper knowledge, they are USELESS. Reading a book also does not fix the problem. I would venture to say that more players have really messed up their playing by hit and miss with the embouchure than those who got lucky and found the right inspiration or teacher.

    The goal is to work logically. If we are really paying attention to our daily routine, but other things aren't working, perhaps the embouchure is a factor. We cannot figure this out beforehand. We have to have a bit of proficiency before any of this becomes important. There is no magic formula to know in advance what is right.

    To answer your question: if the player is good, I don't think that you really saw 2 different embouchures.
     
  4. ChaseFan

    ChaseFan Banned

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    Rowuk is right.

    A year or two ago I made a small adjustment in my mouthpiece position that significantly helped my range, but I continued to use exactly the same embouchure.

    There are some players who use one mouthpiece position for low range but a different mouthpiece position for high range,
    which is not 2 embouchures, because the player's lips continue to be in the same position relative to each other.
    But it is just as bad as having 2 embouchures, because the player must stop and re-position his mouthpiece before entering the upper register and then he has a significantly different tone for the upper register.

    So Rowuk is right.

    Embouchure does affect your preference for mouthpiece position.
    But you can change mouthpiece position while still keeping the same embouchure.

    Same with trumpet tilt.
    Embouchure does affect your preference for trumpet tilt.
    But you can change your trumpet tilt while still keeping the same embouchure.

    Embouchure is how the 2 lips relate to each other, in terms of position with each other and tension with each other, to direct the air stream in a certain direction with a certain force.

    Dean
     
  5. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Here's the problem I had with two different embrochures. While I can scream and peel the paint off the back wall, going from the stratosphere back to the regular register(where most of the music takes place) required me to physically change the position of my lips on the trumpet. This means having to take a millisecond to change the lips. Sometimes the music doesn't allow for the millisecond. I now use the same lip position regardless of the register.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Markie,
    you better be careful in the stratosphere. From what Al Gore has been publishing, there is a lot of CO2 up there and that will make you heat up globally then pass out.

    I can change horns in milliseconds for the high notes, so this issue doesn't even come up!
     
  7. willbarber

    willbarber Piano User

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    I find it's possible to do the small shift I need in the time it takes me to do the catch-breath that I'd need anyway to have enough air.
     
  8. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    Embouchure to me, simply means where you position the mouthpiece on your lips. If you are changing the placement of the mouthpiece for a different part of your range, that is not a good thing to do. That is what is meant by two different embouchures. You will have a hard time ever being a fluid player doing that. (although, there are exceptions to every rule)
     
  9. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Hi Rowuk,
    Thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to be careful while I'm up there. Tell Al Gore I said Hi.
     
  10. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    Very Hi!
     

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