How is this possible??? (Video)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Ian000450, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. Ian000450

    Ian000450 Pianissimo User

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    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  2. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    He practices.
     
  3. codyb226

    codyb226 Banned

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    Because that is Rashawn Ross and Adam Rapa.
     
  4. Ian000450

    Ian000450 Pianissimo User

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    Those were probably the best two responses that could have shown up haha.
     
  5. codyb226

    codyb226 Banned

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    Were you expecting anything different? ROFL
     
  6. jiarby

    jiarby Fortissimo User

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    Here's what I think...

    Air compression in the oral cavity. It really takes very little air.
    Put a bunch of air in your mouth, with the throat closed you compress the oral cavity and force the air through the mpc while holding a tight embochure.
    You can do it too, but getting control over it and learning to focus the chops for the right pitch takes time and practice.

    Adam is doing it differently, he is blowing air from the lungs and can't get the same compression that Rashawn does with just the mouth.


    Rashawn has practiced it and has it down pretty well. I am more impressed with his bebop chops than dog whistle notes.
     
  7. codyb226

    codyb226 Banned

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    Is that why Ross couldnt hold the note out longer? That is a good observation, after watching this video the first time I met my first double C, but I havent been back yet....
     
  8. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    Like almost ALL good screech players they do not know what they are doing and can not possibly explain what they do.

    Here's a bit of what really goes on.

    1. They leave a sufficient amount of upper lip flesh below their upper teeth. Relative to the inherent elasticity of their chops. Most of us don't do this.

    2. The elasticity or vibrancy factor of their upper lip exceeds what is generally found within the norm of all amateurs and even most professional trumpet players.


    Number 1 is the only one we "mortals" can successfully manipulate. We are stuck with what we have in number 2. OK you can occasionally increase the elasticity factor in your chops by puckering, roll in, pooch out, jaw positioning or totally wigging your chops out like Steve reid does on his Triple C's but the results of doing this will be variable between players.

    I probably shouldn't say this on a public forum but I would dispute what Bill Carmichael says here: Bill Carmichael Trumpet - Easy Way Embouchure System #1 - YouTube

    I won't put him down but his "screamin" method will only work for a small fraction of trumpet players. He is essentially promoting most the principles of what Roy Stevens taught back in the 1960's - '70's. By pushing the lower jaw out and manipulating other matters you occasionally can get a weak trumpet player to REALLY blow the screamers but these methods will usually fail.

    Like most of them i failed when trying to play Stevens and similar types sytems. It wasn't too bad because at least i always had a strong High F on my most natural chop setting. Still it bothered me that the DHC's and above were impossible. Such as our O/Poster mentioned.

    So I spent the past 30 + years experimenting in my spare time trying to dissect everything I was doing and reading everything that was written about it on the subject. However i was always careful to maintain my existing natural chops. Bird in the hand and all that.

    Here's the problem with radical embouchure changes: even if you know the rules (and most all of you don't) you must essentially re-work your chops dramatically to pull off Triple C's. For those that try this it will seem impossible. it isn't impossible but the dedication required to do it is herculean. And it doesn't usually come quick.

    You spend much energy and effort just to train your facial muscles to hold the "correct" position for Triple C's. And since this feels so unnatural you expend a lot of effort just holding your chops in the position. THEN you have to coordinate muscle usage and connect register on this FOREIGN set-up. It's kind of like asking Tim Lincecum to switch to left hand throwing and expecting him to still throw 95 miles per hour.

    OK if he had good reason he might even be able to do it but so what? The ball probably won't go over the plate where he wanted it to go anyway. And by the time he perfected enough elements of the game he'd be over forty and washed up as a Giant. See?

    Now as a trumpet player i don't have such an early expiration date like a professional ballplayer has. So i took up the challenge and can actually "do it" after all these years. I mean yes i can hold and sustain a Triple C. Can even connect it to my Low F# and play arpeggios from Low C to Double C and above but guess what?

    This isn't my most accurate setting. I'm far more reliable playing my regular chops on lead. On that setting I'm good for a lot of High G's, some A's and even at times the C. It just requires me a whole helluva lot more work than the naturals.

    And by the way: Some of those naturals do not have that big of a sound in the upper register. Brisbois didn't and it drove him nuts. Not sure if it contributed to his suicide but it might have. He was a perfectionist and despite his phenomenal skills it may have bothered him.

    Ferguson had the fattest sound. Probably because he was able to play just slightly receded jaw. None of his peers has it. Not even Faddis or Sandoval. Rashawn Ross doesn't have it either. He has good volume but not the full spectrum of resonance Maynard had. you can hear it. They'd all probably admit this themselves. Case in point: Maynard's tone in the upper register was so good and full of feeling that he'd probably have been a well regarded trumpet player even if he never had anything above a High F.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  9. jiarby

    jiarby Fortissimo User

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    I think he could hold out the note as long as he had air. You could get good at quick gulping air like circular breathers do. He is really good at the super quick kiss off high note too. It is like spitting something off the tip of your tongue. That high compression is useful in the "lower registers" around double C too.... but you have to open the throat to move some air and play phrases. The squeak setup is no good for that. The super altissimo setup is different than the "normal" double C setup./ Rapa plays up to F above double C with his "normal" setup. He seems flummoxed about getting any higher, and honestly he probably can't with the normal setup. He has to change for the squeakers.


    Look at Cat doing it at 2:45 in this video...
    Duke Ellington - Germany '59 6/7 [Cat Anderson's "El Gato"] - YouTube
    While you are there hang in to watch him wail on the effortless High C-C#-Eb-F Double C lick at 3:40... Spectacular!! And completely different from the triple C kiss off.


    Do you think Clark Terry is chewing gum at 1:20?? Maybe that explains the mumbles thing?? LOL!
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  10. MSfortissimo

    MSfortissimo Pianissimo User

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    Hahaha, understatement of the century
     

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