How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by HSOtrumpet1, Aug 8, 2009.

How do YOU play your trumpet?

  1. Tounge-controlled embrochure

    5 vote(s)
  2. Some other such method

    3 vote(s)
  3. Doing nothing other than putting your own embrochure on the trumpet and blowing

    26 vote(s)
  1. HSOtrumpet1

    HSOtrumpet1 Pianissimo User

    Nov 28, 2008
    Just out of curiousity, how many of you trumpet players out there use a tounge controlled embrochure, how many use some other sort of "method" like this to play, and how many just play, just get out the notes without doing anything more than putting thier lips on the trumpet in a "slightly puckered smile" and blow?
  2. mush-mouth

    mush-mouth Pianissimo User

    Aug 3, 2009
    If I've learned one thing in my recent return to the trumpet it's that it's almost impossible [for me] to understand just what the heck is happening in someone else's mouth.

    Case in point: earlier today I tried to google a description of "TCE" that made sense to me, and I failed to understand anything. Anyone here want to go over this again?
  3. NickD

    NickD Forte User

    I use a hybridization of it. Now, this is the way I explain it. Jerry and hard core TCE guys my say it differently. That's cool, too!

    I set the bottom of the tip of my tongue on the top biting edge of my bottom teeth. The front of the tip of my tongue nudges the back of my lower lip. I achieve a t-tongue by slightly raising the middle of the top front of my tongue to touch the bottom biting edge of the upper teeth and even slightly plugging the lip aperture. I think of a spit buzz throughout.

    This clip is about the lo-gear high gear, but there you can see a little about the tongue works there, too.

    YouTube - Hi-Lo-Gear on Ring Visualizer

    Here is some discussion about long tones in which I address this a bit.

    See a couple of minutes in. I do mis-state one thing. I don't curl my lower lip over the teeth. I sort of tuck it in front of the bottom teeth.

    YouTube - Long Tones - Sotto Voce

    Here I get into the TCE thing in the context of lip buzzing. I get into it around 2:16.

    YouTube - Embouchure Design Revisited

    Finally, I discuss a bot more carefully how I hold my lips in this little segment. This clip is NOT about TCE per se, but I just want to clarify the point that I muddied a bit in the second clip above.

    YouTube - Fascination/Bottom-out

    I hope this stuff sort of helps. There is a whole forum dedicated to this over on another forum site which shall not be named! ;-)

    OK, gotta go! I'm officially on vacation now!

  4. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    I do pretty much what Nick D described except I try to keep the tip of my tongue more behind the lower teeth and away from my lip, as I go higher I think of moving the back of my tongue forward and making a "hissing" sound" so for the upper register the tip of my tongue is always anchored behind my bottom teeth.
  5. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

    May 4, 2007
    Greensboro, NC
    I don't use TCE. I see that it work for some people but not for me. I just use regular tonguing and I have what I need to play what I need to play.
  6. Rocketman

    Rocketman New Friend

    May 11, 2004
    I'm a 10-year student of Jerome Callet so it's all about the use of the tongue in the embouchure for me. I feel quite confident when I say that ALL great trumpet players use their tongues as an important part of their embouchure. The only question has to do with exactly how they use it. Those of us who follow Jerome's teachings maximize the use of the tongue to take advantage of the strength and flexibility of that important muscle. Quite possibly, we place the tongue "wedge" further forward than what is observed in any other technique. This is not necessarily the easiest technique to master but it can result in amazing sound, focus, power, intonation, range, and efficiency. --Ken B.
  7. oj

    oj Pianissimo User

    Sep 9, 2005
    I use my tongue in the same way as Nick D.

    When having trouble tonguing very low notes on tuba, I kind of stumbled on this idea. Then I found out about TCE, came in contact with Jerry and Bahb.

    In 2004, I even arranged a miniseminar with Jerry in Denmark. Have an article about that, here:

    Lessons with Jerome Callet

    Jerry is for sure a nice and special guy. But, as the sceptic I am, I soon questioned some of Jerry's claim.
    One example: He showed me some photos of a German player, Walter Holy and said that when Holy played on natural trumpet, he used the TCE type of tonguing.

    A few months after meeting Jerry, I was able to ask Holy (via a friend in Germany) if he used this type of tonguing. "No, and he had never used it". (He used the tongue against the back of his upper teeth).

    The sad thing about such info is that some of Jerry's "disciples" get mad when I question some of these claims on the Callet Forum on TH (eg. that Maurice Andre uses TCE, etc.). So, I have stopped posting there.

    About Holy (photo, etc.) see here:

    Walter Holy


    P.S. Before moving my tongue in the "TCE-direction", I had been using the tongueing described by Herbert Clarke (tongue tip resting behind lower teeth, etc.). So the move was not a big one ;-)
  8. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    Mine seems to be much the same as Nick Ds, but a little further back in the mouth. :dontknow:
  9. peanuts56

    peanuts56 Pianissimo User

    Jan 18, 2009
    I studied with Jerry 8-10 years back and his methods do work. My one problem with him is he is not always good at explaining things, he sometimes lapses into telling anecdotal stories about other players or students. I was able to decipher what he meant but it took awhile.
    Funny thing is that I figured out what he was working with me while travelling in Hawaii. I was obviously not able to bring my horn but did alot of experimenting and buzzing and it just clicked. Sort of like the think system from The Music Man.
    That said he's a really good guy and I wish him nothing but the best.
  10. johnMak

    johnMak Pianissimo User

    Dec 1, 2008
    Ridgecrest CA
    Interesting Topic indeed.

    Let me view the video again and look into this some more.

    still trying to underestand the concept of double tongue, triple tongue etc...

    I maybe doing it already or not and don't know it.

    I'm a comeback player that needs to start at the very beginning...which the song tells me...a very good place to start.


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