How to have fast air with quiet high notes?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by cantplaytrumpet, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    I would hope that any singing teacher worth their salt as musicians would understand you needs.
     
  2. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    High notes in singing are not only in air support (though that's huge for sure). A voice can be opened up to its higher register without any special air support .... There are other factors with voice. I can say this with confidence, because I'm a tenor, went through 2 years of very expensive singing lessons, opening my range up into the area that people like Elton John and Stevie Winwood inhabit, without getting into breathing at all. Just my normal (not great) breathing did it and I quit taking lessons just as he wanted to address the subject.

    Singing higher is not only about air support but has a lot to do with getting rid of tension, and ideal placement of where the sound is coming from, front to back. To get the feel of singing higher, without any change in air support, talk it out first. Speaking the words in the pitch you want helps to get the singing voice to that pitch.

    But, Richtom is right!!! More air, better air, better supported air is what you want. And no tension.


    Turtle
     
  3. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    Like you Turtle I'm a tenor (lapsed) migraine medication has knocked my voice too much to sing the opera that I love. But I know the lessons and the breathing techniques have been a boon in my trumpet playing. To be honest I would feel that a singing teacher who was not addressing correct breathing techniques and support was not doing their job. Perhaps I should say as an adendum to my get some singing lessons, with an operatic teacher becuase there is no way I could have sung "Ah mes Amiee quelle Jour te Fete" with its nine top Cs stung in the last few phrases with out correct support. I agree placement and relaxation are part of the picture but for me getting the breath right is the number one factor and every teacher I have had has addressed breathing before I even sung a note.
     
  4. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    There aren't that many special breathing requirements for the system he was teaching, called "Vocal Ease". This is the system that turned Luther Vandross into a great singer (8 years of VERY expensive lessons with the guy who developed the system), and Stevie Wonder used to learn to sing in a more relaxed manner, when he developed nodes on his vocal chords.

    The goal of the whole system is to make singing as easy and stress free as talking. No special air is needed to talk well.

    No, he was a great teacher. He turned me into a good singer, at least for a while, before some of it faded (you have to stay on this stuff). He told me there wasn't any need to introduce special breathing (and the enormous tension that always came with that, from his experience), until he did. Up to that point, I was doing fine without it ..... sound, range, intonation .... it was all good with just my regular breathing. I never ran out of air, no matter what scales or songs we were doing. At the point he started talking about breathing, we were getting into more strenuous exercises. :dontknow:


    Turtle
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  5. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Applicable to the trumpet, arch and aperture control the high notes IMO. But the key is to produce these softly as well as loud to "own" them.
     
  6. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    I think we'll have to agree to differ Turtle. I certainly don't want a fight with you especially with the ill feeling about already today. I will say to be fair I was doing strenuous excercises almost from the word go as my initial training was to play the lead tenor role in Pirates of Penzance. I will say I was a Bel Canto Tenor and that is quite a different thing from being a pop singer (And I am NOT deriding Luther Van Dross or Stevie Wonder in that it, is just different)
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  7. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Haha .... no fighting at all, Andy ..... just a different system. Also, he's teaching pop singing here, so volume isn't a factor, unless the student just happens to be interested in opera. I'm only going into detail here because I think there may be something to come away with for the trumpet.

    I know that air support above and beyond what you take in to talk is unnecessary to get the highest notes out in singing. I do it, regularly. More air and the better support that I'm learning from trumpet playing, makes the notes, not any easier to get, but fatter and louder.

    What makes singing easy without any special breathing is utter relaxation ... the kind of relaxing, zero tension way you would have if you were just having a friendly chat with your mate. That's how he taught me to sing, and probably why I sometimes nearly fell asleep while performing (when it got boring in the cafe). A key to higher notes on the trumpet is an absolute lack of tension, if it could be pulled off. I can't do it because everything about the trumpet makes me tense, and I can't get into that zone that I have with singing, where it's as relaxed as talking. I like to talk. What can I say?


    Turtle
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  8. trumpetplayer231

    trumpetplayer231 Banned

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    The garden hose concept is what i am familiar with as well.
     
  9. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    I love the relaxation notions you talk about here and they would be great for the trumpet. My best notion for singing breathing is to have a cushoin of air almost held ready for use round the waist area (I sometimes tell people to imagine they are trying to push a life belt off as they breath in) and to have strength (not tension) in what my best teacher referd to as the diamond of supprt and area from just below the rib cage out to the sides on the waist band (put your hands on the waist and go Haa with plaenty of breath to find the spot) then between the waist ans the nether regioins (the toilet muscles as he called them in a great Glaswegian no nonsense way) find the spot that tenses if you go Pissshhhhh as a vocal sound.

    In singing I used these muscles and tricks for excersies and then was allowed to forget about them for singing an aria. This works for me in trumpet playing if I get these areas right in excersise work then it drops in naturally for pieces

    A
     
  10. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Yeah, that's it, exactly. How my teacher described the feeling (before we were just about to really get into breathing), was "a small physical squeeze around the mid chest area." That's it. No more than that, he said. Just a small amount of compression so that each note you sing, has a bit of air ready to get out, that you had been gently holding back.

    Trumpet seems similar, but the compressions are greater.


    Turtle
     

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