How to install Trigger{Bach}

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by BrassBandMajor, Jun 20, 2015.

  1. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    I have already suggested to the op to buy a hand held gas torch and a beaten up instrument and practice taking it apart and reassembling it to get some experience. I will take this further and offer him free Skype lessons in how to. I learned how to solder 70 years ago and am reasonably adept in all forms. There are many videos on youtube, the latest I have seen is a lass fitting an adjustable gap receiver to a trumpet under Jason Harrelson's direction. I am still learning.

    Regards, Stuart.
     
  2. robrtx

    robrtx Mezzo Forte User

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    Best Answer!

    I am however curious about......

    Why do you want to install this? Does the trumpet you intend this to go on have no 1/V intonation correction and there are some wonky intonation issues that you feel necessitate one?

    Why do you want to tackle this job yourself? Are you trying to save some money by doing it yourself? Are you interested in learning and want to teach yourself how to do this job? Do you have any skills/experience from doing similar types of modifications/repairs previously?

    Or are you just trying to understand what is involved with this project before discussing with a brass repair tech?

    Again, just curious where this information will be taking you........
     
  3. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

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    This is a NZD$200.00 kit landed in NZ ..... in truth it was never going to happen. The kit is worth more than the Yammie.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    This thread does highlight a couple of things that perhaps were not initially considered, or were considered and not deemed to be handicaps. In any case, what do we now have after 23 posts?:

    1) a simple question "how"
    2) several answers how hard this could be
    3) several answers why not to
    4) a bunch of text how it could be dangerous
    5) a little bit of how to approach it

    All approaches are valid, but I think the original question did not get enough "traction".


    First of all, to install a trigger we have to determine suitability.
    1) If the trumpet has a hook or ring on the first valve, it would make sense to reverse the top part of the slide to put the outer tube on the valve and the inner tube on the slide. This keeps your thumb from rubbing on the moving surface while holding the horn, making it harder to move (been there, done that).
    2) if it is not a kit specifically for this horn, you have to check that the linkage geometry can function with this horn - the length of the trigger itself and length of the linkage have to line up or be modifiable. You have to check that the linkage connector will fit on the slide bow.

    If you get this far, you solder everything carefully in place after prepping the soldering areas. Especially when soldering to the valve block, extreme care is required otherwise you can relap the first valve. It is not rocket science but extensive practice on a beater definitely decreases the possibility of further repair work.

    The reasons for a trigger are many. Even although I do not prefer them (I wish that I had a better solution for rotary trumpets! I need to think about that!), for someone with some type of handicap, they could be a saving grace.

    I wish that I could wish good luck but I believe that this type of stuff should not need luck - so I wish you good practice before starting!
     
  5. tjcombo

    tjcombo Forte User

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    All the angles have been pretty much covered, but there is one more thing I don't recall seeing... Does the slide move freely enough to work with a trigger - assuming you or someone else can fit the kit?
     
  6. tk1031

    tk1031 Pianissimo User

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    Lot's of really good comments here. So I will add: It will cost less, and possibly keep whatever value you have in the horn by taking it to a technician that knows what they are doing... or send it to one, I have actually chatted with people in NZ that can do it... so no excuse there. I think it is very intelligent to question the "need" to do it. and finally, Rowuck... what are you looking for in trigger for a rotary? single, double, push button, or slightly more traditional ;-)

    Dennis is an engineer (official, or ad lib... you certainly sound like you know what you are doing, and are not afraid to experiment). And someone else told you exactly how to do it, but with the investment of the proper tools, to do a proper job: it's cheaper to have someone do it right in the first place. And aside from myself, I know that there at least one other Master Craftsman that has commented. There has been very good advise given here, and some excellent questions posed.

    If you are in for adventure, and experimentation: by all means, give it a shot. So what do you thing Brassbandmajor?
     
  7. robrtx

    robrtx Mezzo Forte User

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    Agree completely. I think that more specifics in the question are needed for an appropriate answer. I think that if just basics about how a job like this is done was the information that the OP wanted, this has been addressed by some of the members who are technical experts.

    Assumptions about cost effectiveness, appropriateness, suitability, technical expertise required, etc. need more information as to who, what, and why in order to be determined IMO.

    I do find it somewhat amusing though how a poster can generate so many varied responses by asking a vague question and nobody really knows if he has gleaned what he was looking for..........:roll:
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    If I really started to think about it, I probably could tell you. I play a 1938 Heckel with no compensation. If I need correction and it is convenient, I will pull the third slide.

    In my opinion, the current spring and rod triggers available on new horns move the horn too much front to back when using them. If I think about my piston horns, I push out the first and third slides with little effort and it does not shake or wiggle the trumpet much because I have a push/pull action at the same time. I can move fast and not affect anything else. I have thought about a trigger on the rotary for my right pinky - like the 4th valve on a picc. Then the "disturbance" due to motion would be axial not lateral. The left hand still has some fingers available too......

    The problem as I see it, is that we don't have an integral solution. Current triggers are like warts on immaculate skin. I haven't given it enough thought. I will now and post my thoughts as they develop.

     
  9. breakup

    breakup Mezzo Piano User

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    Just to add to the above comments, I've worked with things mechanical all my life, studied industrial arts 4 years in college, taught metal shop for 7 years in Jr HS, worked in 2 different machine shops manufacturing metal parts. I know how to solder and weld. But for a musical instrument, I would send it to a tech to get it done right.
     
  10. tk1031

    tk1031 Pianissimo User

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    Rowuk... perhaps we should start another thread on rotary trigger design. I play almost exclusively rotary. I have the Reidl push-button system on several horns (I don't use the trigger.... it just looks cool). I have a couple of leaver systems, and one that you can use for both 1+3 or just 1. In all honesty, I don't use them, or install them on my own instrument. My personal instruments don't have water keys, and i don't even polish them (I made it for the sound, not the looks, and when I play trumpet... no one looks at my trumpet). My piccolo trumpet works fine when I "set and forget." And finally, all the rotaries I have played have such wide slots (fairly centered I might add) that it is easy enough to lip up or down a half step. Anyway, I think that is enough for this thread before we start a new one.

    robrtx: interesting observation ;-)
     

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