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Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by chet fan, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. chet fan

    chet fan Piano User

    284
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    Jul 3, 2009
    ok today I decided to experiment a bit with piano and trumpet so I recorded "it never entered my mind"

    heres few versions

    first with muted trumpet
    YouTube- itneverenteredmtd

    than with open trumpet
    YouTube - itneverentered2

    and with flugelhorn
    YouTube - itneverenteredflugel


    what I noticed is that it helps my time obviously, as that was pointed out as one of my troubles, but I find it extremly phisically difficult on my right hand, my 5th finger hurts and other fingers are cramped slightly after playing. does it mean that i might be applying too much pressure, the pressure that I would normlly be applying with my left hand and never noticed. just a thought, also my range shrunk without left hand there


    thank you
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2010
  2. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    You use 1,3 to play G and 123 to play F# sometimes. I would stick to the normal fingerings.

    Playing with a metronome is the only way to help your time. Playing piano along with yourself will only distract you, and you still have the ability to shift speeds like is demonstrated in these videos.

    It also appears that your fingers are hanging way over the valves. Play with the tips or pads on the first joint of your fingers. It is less range of motion to do so and there is less chance of you pushing or pulling the valves at an angle.
     
  3. chet fan

    chet fan Piano User

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    Jul 3, 2009
    usually I play with my tips and fingers above the valves, but w/o left hand all the trumpet weight is on my 5th finger (the small one in the hook) so I cannot play with tips
     
  4. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    Oct 16, 2008
    There are no quick fixes that will make you a better player, so you don't really have to spend time with regular video clips. Lots of good consistent practice will help.

    Your hand hurting and loss of range are definite indicators that you use too much pressure when playing.

    I'd say get a metronome, Band in a Box, or some other kind of steady background beat to work timing.

    Good posture, both hands on the horn, good breathing, and long tones can help improve your tone quality, but again, there's no magic pill or quick fix.
     
  5. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

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    Sep 20, 2007
    Los Angeles
    You have strong musical sensitivity, which is most evident in your piano playing, an instrument you clearly have some command over. As a former teacher back in the day, and now a dedicated comeback player who plays next to pros every other day or so, I can safely say that you have some great seeds but they are not near cultivated enough for a gig ready performance. This, of course, is useless to you but for some constructive criticism, which I'm often loathe to give, but you're asking for it, it seems, and after a vodka with my sushi, I'm inspired.

    Your intonation, which wavers, could be helped by a tuner and constant listening to some other players than the "strong" ones, those known for their solid, spot on intonation such as Allan Vizzuti or Maurice Andre. Great studio players such as Wayne Bergeron, Gary Grant, Warren Luening are great choices. You just NEVER hear the pitch waver. Listen and immitate.

    Phrasing is something you're clearly enamored with and your list of players to listen to should include the Chet Bakers, Louis Armstrong and Miles Davis's of the world. Miles got some of his phrasing from Louis Armstrong and Frank Sinatra, according to his autobio, and I've spent hours and hours with Frank's and Louis's recordings. I can't emphasize this enough: Louis, Louis, LOUIS. We all came from him, and on the 5th anniversary of Katrina, all the more appropriate to listen to the original New Orleans style that gave Billie Holiday, Roy Eldridge and Miles a platform from which to jump.

    Enjoy.
    In music,
    Ed
     
  6. Alex_C

    Alex_C Piano User

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    May 30, 2010
    Gilroy, California
    I'd say you have no rhythm. And uhh .... you sound like me.

    Wanna get together and go through Standard Of Excellence with me? You don't miss as many notes as I do, but the notes you do, eww. Now, I get a bunch of 'em "on" but then I screw up, 3 valves is a lotta valves for a beginner. I figure we're a match, since we're lousy in different ways.

    Trumpet + bugle + 2 cornets + HS band books + Arban's + 1-1/2 months experience = DANGEROUS let's go.
     
  7. chet fan

    chet fan Piano User

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    Jul 3, 2009
    thank you for your responses I appreciate them. But you state that I should listen to vizzuti in order to get my sound in shape eg. not to wave. But than after that you suggest Miles and Chet (both of whom I listen to extensively) and suggest what?, get back to wavering sound? -thats what they do -their sound wavers :dontknow: I thought it was acceptable. Ok I admit some of my wavering just happened by mistake, but many of my wavering is done on purpose too.
     
  8. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

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    Sep 20, 2007
    Los Angeles
    Vizzuti was recommended not for sound (although his is excellent and pure) but for intonation. Miles and Chet were recommended for phrasing, hallmarks of their playing. No contradictions there. I don't suggest you listen for any wavering in their sound, just their choices in jazz phrasing, a genre which you seem genuinely interested in.

    Listen, you can play as you wish, but if you hear Chet and think "wavering," (I certainly don't) and hear Vizzuti and only think of sound, then I think you've misread my comments. I hope that reclarifies my comments to you. I wish you the best!

    Oh, and I'll echo others. Use a metronome. Don't leave home without one.

    ed
     
  9. chet fan

    chet fan Piano User

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    Jul 3, 2009
    Well I might sound immensly stupid with what I am about to say, but when I saw that both of my videos (muted trumpet and open trumpet) last exactly the same 2:38, and obviously w/o any editing whatsoever , I actually thought that I can keep pretty constant time. Guess I was wrong. Or wasnt?
    Regarding Baker and Miles their tone seem to glide into the pitch sometimes, and sometimes they sound off too, but I always thought that there was nothing wrong with that.
    TBH, I actually never listened to Vizzuti or bergeron and other classical players. I respect that music, but it is just not my cup of tea. When I listen to classical music I listen to piano music of erik satie for example.
    I do posses one CD with clasical trumpet it is "Wynton Marsallis Essential" some compilation I think, and I could never force myself to listen to it, I listened maybe 5 minutes and than changed it. I bought it because I love Wynton and I enjoy his other music, I listen to "he and she" and "two man with the blues with willie nelson" often. Both of that albums I find extraordinary good and I enjoy listening to them. So that is why I bought that clasical CD, mostly out of respect towards wynton and to listen to something different, but I just couldnt force myself. So I guess if the music is supposed to be fun, I will stick with jazz trumpeteers for the time beeing. It meakes no sense to force myself into things that I do not like. :-)
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  10. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    Oct 16, 2008
    Starting and ending at roughly the same time is nice, but there's a WORLD of timing relationships (note to note, phrase to phrase) in between.

    The difference between the way Chet and Miles shape their notes and sound is vastly different than what you're doing. You never establish a pitch center, so there's no way to tell what you're gliding in and out of. It's all just an out of tune mess.

    That's fair. Not everyone can listen to lots of that. I think the thought behind recomminding that type of listening is to get you focused on pitch.

    Just because you want to play jazz it doesn't mean that you get to ignore pitch. Think about a jazz piano player. They have to shape their thoughts and phrases with the keys in front of them and can't cheat by bending notes.

    Pitch first, then shape and style.

    Yes, music should be fun, but it should still be music. Play the ink first. Hit the pitches and play the notes. Once you're there you can shape them as your own.
     

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