I wish more parents would consider cornets

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by coolerdave, Jun 18, 2011.

  1. EricMGB1974

    EricMGB1974 Pianissimo User

    Nov 12, 2009
    Elmira, NY
    It's not just the other students discouraging the use of cornets. I started both my daughter and son on cornets, and when they got to middle school the director, a trumpet performance major in college, was not pleased with having the cornets in his band. My daughter ended up eventually moving to French horn & my son is now playing on trumpet because the director would not let him compete with the trumpets in the section in various contests he would have for highest note, longest note, etc because he said the cornet gave my son an unfair advantage because it was "easier to play.":dontknow: Isn't that an argument that they should all be on cornet at that age then?
    coolerdave likes this.
  2. Darthsunshine

    Darthsunshine Mezzo Forte User

    Jul 19, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    In our community orchestra we always play a march for our encore. The trumpet section always brings along cornets for that one number, which is pretty fun. However, most beginners need to chose, and the fashion is to choose trumpet. Oh, and as for tone difference, I don't have a comparison video, but I agree with Rowuk's statement that they're just as loud, but don't cut through as well. I always think of the cornet's sound as a bit more round at the edges, and the trumpet a bit more squared. Don't know if that makes sense, but that's how I compare it in my own head. All I know is I love playing both.
  3. richtom

    richtom Forte User

    Dec 7, 2003
    Modern student cornets are not any better than a student trumpet. I've played enough of them to know that for a fact.
    What do the kids get when they are given a cornet? Something with a C cup which is
    much too shallow to get a true cornet sound. Cornets need to be played with a deeper cup to come close to a real cornet sound. Without the deep cup, it sounds pretty much like a trumpet.
    Gee, what do you tell a kid who wants to play trombone? Sorry kid, you can't reach 7th position so why don't you just forget about it?
    If a kid is very small like Geoffrey Gallante, who I performed with last summer, a cornet is
    appropo. (Geoffrey now has a trumpet). Other than small size a trumpet is the choice I would make.
    Rich T.
  4. shooter

    shooter Piano User

    Jan 12, 2007
    So, why not a deep cup mp in a trumpet for "cornet" sound? Two mouthpieces are a lot cheaper than two horns.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2011
  5. mineo50

    mineo50 Pianissimo User

    Jan 15, 2011
    Barstow, CA
    When I started playing, the first two horns I owned were cornets. Moving forward to my midtwenties, I acquired my first trumpet an Olds Recording. I was playing with a bach 10 1/2 c mouthpiece. The first words out of my teachers mouth were "your sound is too much like a cornet." I switched to a parduba mouthpiece and never heard that phrase again.

    So yes the mouthpiece can make a difference in the sound. I currently use the same size parduba with my cornet. The cornet still sounds more cornety then my trumpets, but does have some of the trumpet edge.

    When I started to play horn, there was a close to even percentage of cornets to trumpets in my high school band. Seven years later, playing in the community college band no one played a cornet.

    I honestly feel that the advent of "jazz" and other modern styles of music featuring the edgy/cutting sound of the trumpet have contributed to popularizing the trumpet versus the cornet.
  6. MiniBryan

    MiniBryan Pianissimo User

    Jun 6, 2011
    Yeah my starter horn was a King 603 cornet, my band director recomended it
  7. gglassmeyer

    gglassmeyer Piano User

    Apr 28, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    I would say that here in the US the big band era had trumpets blazin' and that's what all the kids wanted to emulate. I've been playing for about 33 years and have seen 1 cornet in a local music store in all that time.
    I would love to have one, but for my amateur trumpet hobby, I can't justify spending the money. Of course I would be wanting a fairly high end pro horn. Maybe I'll pick up a used student one just to play around with.
  8. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    How many band pieces are scored .. 3 cornet parts adn 2 trumpet parts ... head scratcher.
    @Richtom ... check out used cornets vs used trumpets ... Bach TR300 vs a Bach CR300 ... probably a hundred dollars difference and the cornet will be clean.
    I am going to post something on youtube within a week ... I happen to have a Getzen 300, a Tamaha 2320, Bach CR300 and my Bach37 ... thought it would be fun... maybe a name that horn deal
  9. scrap

    scrap Pianissimo User

    Oct 22, 2010
    York, South Carolina
    Cornets have a place in concert band. Trumpets fit in both concert AND marching band, and can easily play in place of a cornet. Cornets are discouraged because many students would prefer NOT to have to buy a second instrument, and since those starting on cornet would later have to purchase a trumpet it's understandable that directors would advise students to just get the trumpet...

    I could be wrong of course but this seems like the best explanation to me, though I agree that using trumpets when cornets are called for should be less common..a set of loaner horns owned by the school would be a fairly easy solution.
  10. richtom

    richtom Forte User

    Dec 7, 2003
    The price of a used trumpet versus a similar used cornet is pointless. Condition of the instrument is what matters - whether it is a student, intermediate, or professional model.
    Quality Brass website
    This site (Fred Cirksena's) is one of the most realistic price guides on the web and his horns
    are what he says they are. I heartily recommend Quality Brass. Fred is honest and so are his products.
    Regarding sound differences, I have a couple of things taken from the lengthy notes Tim Kent took during his years of study and performance with Bud Herseth.
    "Differences between cornet and trumpet - there is none due to modern methods of construction. Most of the sound difference is due to the bends in the tubing rather than conical versus cylindrical bore".
    "Stravinsky pieces - in world premiers of his works, Stravinsky said that cornets need not be used because of the little differences between them and trumpets".
    There is a difference between a properly played cornet and a trumpet, but it is not as wide as many think. British brass bands have a most engaging cornet sound.
    Here are the notes Kent took. This link is to O.J. Utnes terrific website. These notes
    are also found in Kent's book.
    Herseth lesson notes
    For what it is worth, 3 years ago, I was asked to sub in the excellent Evanston Symphony Orchestra. The big piece on the program was Berlioz's Harold in Italy with
    CSO principal violist Charles Pickler as soloist. That piece calls for two very active cornets
    and two trumpets in the more usual classical style. (I played the 2nd trumpet part).
    Subbing for the incapacitated principal trumpet was none other than Charlie Geyer.
    Charlie and the second cornet used cornets and, of course, the 1st trumpet and I used
    C trumpets.
    In the hands of the great Charlie Geyer and the excellent 2nd cornet, there was indeed
    a different sonic signature between the cornets and trumpets. Could they have used trumpets? Sure, but in their hands the "sweeter and lyrical" cornet sound was noticeable and quite effective.
    Rich T.

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