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Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by j4k8, Jan 18, 2008.
I have a "turn of the century" cornet (Holton Herbert Clarke model)and it is a much smaller bore than most instruments available today. It seems to be VERY efficient. It hardly takes any air to get the sound going and I can play MUCH longer phrases. It is not designed to blow walls down, but those long Arban or Clarke technical exercizes CAN be played on one breath! Your breathing needs to be together and the right equipment doesn't hurt either!
You ARE evoking the Valsalva maneuver (VM) when you are playing. It is triggering the Vagus Cranial nerve #10 which is the nerve directly from the brain to the heart. Donâ€™t neglect this situation because of others here who donâ€™t want to face the effects of VM but rather go see your doctor ASAP, explain to him what is happening and ask for an Echo test of your heart to see if you can continue to play the trumpet.
you are making unqualified assumptions. You have your VM cross to bear (for what ever reason!) and seem to want to project that elsewhere. This is an open internet forum so you can post whatever you want, it is just interesting how narrow your perception is of the human body and trumpet playing. Your doctor seems to have you all wound up. You were also given good advice in your own doom and gloom thread. I guess YOU do not want to face the effects of common sense playing. Jeanne (the chops doctor) may have a solution for you. Check her out, hope is better than doom and gloom.
Oh god, not this VM crap again.
Forget about playing loudly says I. Play in tune with a wonderful sound. A MF will carry like a F and F carry like FF.
Let the other players blare out of tune and consequently play in an unmusical manner.
Vagnal nerve stimulation - VNS - is being used to treat drug-resistant depression. The vagal nerve can be stimulated by, among other things, the Valsalva manuever. Ergo, playing the trumpet (which requires the VM anyway to prevent the air-sacs in your lungs from exploding) may make you happier. I am aware that this conclusion has been arrived at before, without the abbreviations. (Isn't it wonderful what you can learn, or think you can learn, on the internets?)
Unqualified assumptions? This information is from my doctor after I quoted him jK48â€™s message.
Iâ€™m not projecting anything. Iâ€™m just giving facts.
This forum is also open to you to post your narrow perception of VM and to what jK48 is going through and what jK48 will have to face when he starts marching which will make his condition even worse.
He knows more about this subject than you and I do put together.
â€œDoom and gloomâ€ is your projection, not mine. The advice that was given was good for it offered me to focus on more pertinent information of which no more good advice was given unfortunately.
Effects of common sense playing? Letâ€™s put this in context if you will. Is stomping your feet on the ground while playing the trumpet loud and using nothing but pressure, is this considered common sense playing? If jK48 is getting a heart malfunction in the comforts of his home, what is it going to be like when he is marching outside? Your grandmothersâ€™ common sense recipes for illness will not help him if he falls.
You are trying to take this thread out of context which means you donâ€™t have a foot to stand on. The â€œdoom and gloomâ€ is your projection, not mine. I am very happy that I found out what my problem was and how it has affected me for many years. jK48 will also be happy once he finds out what his problem is for it might save his life. However, YOU are the one who is worried. You have every right to be worried for you are a prime candidate for a stroke with your high blood pressure. This â€œdoom and gloomâ€ perception is directly from you.
Here are a couple of tips just for jK48. If you decide to start marching without consulting with a doctor and even if he decides for you to NOT to take the Echo test, if you feel your heart pounding while marching, stop playing but keep the horn up to your lips and fake the fingerings of the music while breathing regularly through your nose. Try to relax as much as possible. If/when your band is stopped, play the music MF. However, if you do not want to follow any of this advice, at least donâ€™t station yourself in the marching band in front of the base drummer because he will not see you fall. Also, if you have money and want to get a "turn of the century" cornet so that it will be easier for you to play, you are welcome to do this if you donâ€™t mind all the scratches, dents and wear/tear that marching band puts on a horn. You might want to look for an inexpensive horn that is SHINNEY because looks are important in marching bands.
Good luck and be well.
P.S. rowuk, I am not against you but rather for you. Think about it.
P.S.S. rowuk, IMO, â€˜naturalâ€™ trumpets are harder to play. My heart aches just thinking about it.
I wish you luck in all future endeavors. Obviously you lost your joy. That came from somewhere.
You make the assumption that YOUR doctor (that also has you wound up), is in a position to diagnose second hand information over the internet. Sorry, like with internet embouchure advice, I do not consider this serious practice. The advice to get a checkup if this continues is sound. Even better is to get ones playing in order so that FORCE is not the primary objective. I outlined that for the thread owner.
Marching band, when properly done is not STOMPING (that would prevent any type of playing anyway!) or playing your definition of "loudly". Using nothing but pressure is universally discouraged but sometimes ignored. So I see no reason to damn this venue that gives so many players a great deal of pleasure!
Getting back to your "obsession": produce the scientific proof, that means the medical history of your victims, the analysis of their playing habits, possible other related factors like blood pressure, sleep apnea, cholesterol, body fat, tongue position......... and you could turn me into a believer. For the moment, I consider this to bordering on a HOAX. Even with extended internet research on VM, I found no evidence supporting your hypothesis. I found mention of a "closed glottis" which would not let us play at all. I think you need a new doctor or at least a qualified second opinion.
p.s. the natural trumpet needs less air than its modern counterpart. Most chamber orchestras specializing in historic performance practices do not consider blowing walls down to be historically correct or desirable! The hard part of the nat is the facial muscle and tongue control. That is simply a question of practice. The relaxed approach also brings great benefits here and force punishes you VERY quickly.
p.p.s. my other findings will be posted to your VM horror thread.
Rowak and others have given your "their take" on the subject. You apparently choose not to accept what they are telling you.
Trumpet players (and musicians in general) are very passionate about their playing. If they had to go through life "not playing" their instruments, they would be "dead" inside. You often hear how miserable musicians are who for one reason or another no longer are able to play. You are saddened for them, because you know what they are missing, often to no fault of their own.
You can die walking out your front door, while traveling in a car, jet, bus, cab, on the job, recreating, playing an instrument, or whatever? You can die in your sleep!
If death is the "beginning of life" as we understand it, we cannot worry about death. It will come in time. For most us, playing our instruments is a big part of life and living. We will continue until we can no longer play or life ceases. For many, playing an instrument adds to the quality of life for as long as we are alive!
If you cannot do that, so be it. However, don't expect everyone else to feel the same way.