I'm having some trouble with my valves...

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Strad37, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. et_mike

    et_mike Mezzo Forte User

    Oct 16, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Ditch the Al Cass, order some Ultra-pure and follow Rowuk's advice at the top of the forum. I would almost bet my next paycheck your problems diminish... Hey, if synthetic is better for the engine in your $60,000 sports car, then it is bound to be better for your horn too...
  2. lmf

    lmf Forte User

    May 16, 2007
    Indiana USA
    Hi, Mike

    This is not the first time we've heard that different valve oils work better on different horns.

    I agree that you should follow the advice of Rowak and others. The brand you are using apparently is causing your valves not to work as well as they should. :dontknow:

    I have found the brand you use does not work well on my horns. I use a synthetic instead, which makes for "slippery" valves.

    Best wishes,

  3. Strad37

    Strad37 New Friend

    Nov 4, 2007
    Terra Bella
    O.k. I'll have to order some synthetic oil because my local music shop didn't have any. Thanks for the help.
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    We need to be careful about comparing engines and trumpet valves. The only commonality is that they go up and down! In an engine, I have a closed circuit, filtered, under great pressure with large temperture swings and a piston with great accelleration. Those factors can be balanced off against one another. With the trumpet, I can only change oil type and my cleaning habits.
    Here is a VERY non-technical explanation:
    Viscosity (the ability of a fluid to "stick together" that is required to protect 2 surfaces from one another - if the coating is not tough enough, the surface of the lubricant will "tear" and the metal surfaces will make contact with one another and cause wear) needs to be determined for each job at hand.
    The relatively slow speed of a moving trumpet valve and the relatively constant playing temperature make for a relatively easy choice in viscosity. The problem is the moisture and (minute and not so minute) food particles in the horn that also need to be "flushed" with the oil.
    The lubricating element of petroleum based oils "evaporates" in about 15-20 hours. That means oil every day BUT when the important part of the oil is gone, we have moisture on the valve, so simple reoiling does not restore the protective state. That means cleaning, drying and reoiling EVERY DAY to keep the speed up and the wear down.

    The valves still go up and down when they are only moist (my grandfather used to spit on his valves to lubricate them), there is more wear as the viscosity of water sucks for protecting valves! The more food particles, the worse water can provide any lubrication at all!
    This is why I use synthetic oil (and brush my teeth before playing - ALWAYS!).
  5. brem

    brem Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 13, 2007
    Quebec City, QC, Canada
    I've never found recognizable food particles inside my horn... but I've found a micro-cosmos of Green Stuff. :)
  6. et_mike

    et_mike Mezzo Forte User

    Oct 16, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Rowuk.... it amazes me that even when I agree with your advice you find a way to be little my comments. I'm not an idiot. I, and every one else on this site, realize that there are huge differences between automobile engines and trumpet valves. My comment referred simply to the fact that petroleum based products are the way of the past and that synthetic technology gives us great benefits... in trumpets AND engines. So no, we don't need to be careful when comparing engines and trumpets. I doubt very seriously that any one is going to dump a quart of 10w-30 in their trumpet or a gallon of Al Cass in their engine.

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