Info on Helmut Wobisch

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by sinfoniantrumpeter, Dec 7, 2005.

  1. sinfoniantrumpeter

    sinfoniantrumpeter Pianissimo User

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    Apr 10, 2005
    Hey Manny,
    Do you have any quick info on Helmut? I know that the cadenza he wrote for the Haydn is used by many trumpeters....but why? What's makes him an authority, etc?

    Others feel free to chime in as well.
    ST
     
  2. Derek Reaban

    Derek Reaban Mezzo Piano User

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    Jun 16, 2005
    Tempe, Arizona
    sinfoniantrumpeter,

    Helmut Wobisch was Principal Trumpet with the Vienna Philharmonic from 1939-1978 based on the information that I received from their archives department. I know that he recorded extensively and taught at the Hochschule for Musik for many years advancing students into the Vienna Philharmonic.

    It’s a start!
     
  3. Alex Yates

    Alex Yates Forte User

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    Aug 11, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Hey there ST. I have six different cadenzas transcribed from various performers and honestly, I think it is just a matter of personal preference. You can even compose your own cadenza. I personally don't use the Helmut version when performing this work.

    Derek's post gives you some good history tid-bits as to why he would be considered an "authority" though.
     
  4. ds

    ds New Friend

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    Oct 2, 2005
    Edison, NJ
    Helmut Wobish recorded the Haydn twice, once on a ten inch lp in mono and again with better sound, but after his car accident, and most people preferred his first recording. The best thing about his recording is that he made Haydn sound like Haydn. As a long time member of the Vienna Philharmonic, he had that music in his bones. There was nothing "slick" about his playing, and he performed it on some kind of rotary trumpet. There is much to learn from his recording of the piece, if you can find it. I like the fact that the cadenza is very much in the style of Haydn, and isnt out of character with the rst of the piece. Good luck!
     
  5. cornetguy

    cornetguy Mezzo Forte User

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    Sep 12, 2005
    Saint Paul, MN
    in addition to all that he was also the president of the philharmonic for many years, the director of the vienna trumpet ensemble and there are also some seedier aspects of his past, there was an article in the trumpet guild about a year ago i think on the vienna trumpet ensemble that has quite a bit about wobish in it too.

    i do play the cadenza, it seems to fit with haydn. i think robbins landon corrberated with him on it, or i remember reading that robbins landon approved it if not. (for those who dont know robbins landon did a lot of editing of the works of haydn and is one of the leading haydn experts in the world)
     
  6. Rgale

    Rgale Mezzo Forte User

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    Jun 16, 2005
    Where could I obtain this cadenza?
     
  7. cornetguy

    cornetguy Mezzo Forte User

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    Sep 12, 2005
    Saint Paul, MN
    it is one of the cadenzas in the tom crown publishing edition of the work
     
  8. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    Sep 29, 2004
    USA
    I don't know that Wobisch was an "authority" because that's a word that is way too subjective in this context. What he absolutely was, however, was a Viennese trumpeter playing Viennese music and a pioneer in recording that music. His cadenza was played as often as it was because it was a recording that was widely distributed. Don't misunderstand, I happen to think it's a nice cadenza.

    I'm not crazy about whizbang cadenzas BUT the point of a cadenza is to give a player a chance to show of a bit. That's why they improvised those things all the time in that day. I don't care for it to sound like a Clarke variation, either. If the cadenza is out of the style with chromatics and techniques that are latter day convention, it makes the cadenza the feature and takes away from the piece, I think.

    It doesn't stop some artists and that's their right. Hey, Alex, where's that Gould disclaimer?

    ML
     
  9. Bill Dishman

    Bill Dishman Piano User

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    Nov 22, 2003
    Gainesville, Florida
    Excessive Cadenzas

    I have also felt that too many players use cadenzas that are way too extreme and out of character with the piece. Some of the nicest cadenzas I have heard are often rather simple and melodic rather than technical to the extreme.

    I also understand that many composers began writing their own cadenzas due to performers going too far with the cadenzas and it detracted from the music.

    It is great to hear someone of your stature (ML) urging caution against this practice.

    I also object to excessive ornamentations on Da Capos of some baroque works. Handel or Bach mixed with "Carnival of Venice" is a real sore spot with me. Especially when done with a duet type piece like "Seraphim" where the vocalist and the trumpet try to outdo each other.


    The music should always come first!


    Bill Dishman
    Gainesville, Florida
     
  10. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    USA
    Re: Excessive Cadenzas

    Bill,


    I guess that's one spot where I have to mildly disagree because I don't think once the audience has heard the melody the first time through that it's bad to have a bit of fun with ornamentation. BUT you are right that it should be within the rules pertaining to the abilities of the natural trumpet. I think the audience and performers both enjoy a bit of tasteful competitive playing as long as everyone can... uh...

    ...Handel it.

    Dreadfully sorry, Bill.


    ML
     

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