Initial impression of my new 1600 WB!

Discussion in 'Horns' started by ChasStarr, May 21, 2004.

  1. ChasStarr

    ChasStarr Pianissimo User

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    Feb 22, 2004
    NE Louisiana
    Drac, I tried to respond to your post a couple of days ago about my WB, but it mysteriously disappeared as I was trying to submit a response.

    But, I recieved it yesterday!

    It is scratch gold-plate, and the fit and finish is gorgeous! I almost want to put it in a glass case and just look at it for awhile! Got a concert this weekend and a big band gig so I'll get to play it in two different settings and give it a real workout.

    The initial play test was done with my lead piece (13A4) and I gotta tell you, my upper register slotting got noticeably better from my 75 LA Benge. On my Benge, once I got to 4 ledger line G, the slots above that felt huge, not so on the 1600.

    It got nice and bright in the upper register, but even with my lead piece the lower register was a bit more full and with a little more core to the sound than my old Benge.

    The only thing I didn't like and I've already changed (thanks to PC King including them) is from the metal valve guides to the nylon guides. I like the quieter action. Oh, and as far as the valves go, I cleaned them up, used a liberal amount of the Zaja oil PiCK sent with the horn and they are working fine. Very fast already and am looking forward to when they are really broken in. And, compared to the long valve stroke on my Benge, it's nice to have a little shorter valve stroke.

    I know I'm in the honeymoon period, and it's all good :D So after I've played it for a month or so, I'll give a more thorough play review. I'm in a big band, church orchestra, church praise band, and a community band, so I'll get to really put it through the paces pretty quickly.
     
  2. drac

    drac Pianissimo User

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    Mar 9, 2004
    Sounds like you have a winner so far. Hopefully the honeymoon will be indefinite. Have you noticed any difference in sound with the gold plating?? I can only guess what mine will sound like in copper?? I don't know if I can wait much longer.....it's like christmas eve for three months!! Oh well. I still promise to post some pics when I get it, and I will review it as well. Happy playing!! Talk to you soon....

    Jon
     
  3. ChasStarr

    ChasStarr Pianissimo User

    93
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    Feb 22, 2004
    NE Louisiana
    I really can't tell much of a difference in sound from behind the horn than when I play my Benge. So, I asked my minister of music who happens to be a fine trumpet player in his own right (not to say that I am!) to listen to both in the sanctuary (big) at our church. I told him to stand with his back to me and I played a hymn medley and asked him to give me his impressions.

    Benge: focused sound, with a brightness throughout all the registers that I played in, with a bit of an edge in the upper register.

    1600WB: As soon as I played the first passage he stopped me and said thats your new horn. As I finished, his comments were the horn seemed to have a bit more depth to the sound and although it brightened up nicely in the upper register it didn't have that bit of edginess that the Benge has.

    But, as we all have heard before, his quote was: "you still sound like you"!
    Which he happens to like so I guess it's still all good.

    To answer your question, my WB brightens up a bit more than the lacquer version I play tested, which is what I wanted. So, I'm happy!

    I wouldn't be surprised If your copper bell version plays a bit darker than mine.

    The only thing I have noticed so far that has me perplexed is the amount of water I produce on this horn. More than my Benge and a lot of it seems to be in the second valve/slide. I find myself having to empty the second valve slide and blowing the water through the valve casing out of the slide holes. I would empty the amado keys and I could still hear the water crackles in the horn as I played and low and behold, the second valve slide!

    I tell you though, this horn is fun to play, very responsive in all registers, and it slots like a dream for me in the extreme upper register.

    I kiddingly asked PC King if it had a Double C button I could push when I needed it and this horn almost does (for me anyway).

    Now only if I could find that improv. button! :D

    Let me know when you get yours and what you think. My next purchase is a flugel and I'm leaning toward a copper bell.

    Charles
     
  4. drac

    drac Pianissimo User

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    Mar 9, 2004
    You know, I had problems with those damn amato water keys on all the Kanstuls I have tried too. I talk to PC about it and apparently you have to get used to tilting the horn the proper way to get the water out. I personally think they suck but I forgot to order mine with the standard keys!! Most people swear by them so I guess there is a bit of a learing curve with them. Also I heard if you blow too hard the water will go past the water key and you will have to empty it elsewhere. If anyone else has some good insight on this problem please post!!!!

    Jon
     
  5. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    4,529
    8
    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Insight into Amado water keys: If you want to find out how Amados SHOULD work, get Leigh to a) build a horn with them installed, or b) overhaul a horn and have them installed (or reinstalled). The problem with most Amados occurs, in my opinion, when the hole is drilled through the tubing of the slide "in question". If it's drilled too fast or with a slightly dull drill bit there will be an "edge" or burr left on the inside of the hole that blocks the flow of water out.

    Some folks say that you should "drill out" the hole one size larger. Well I'd suggest that what they are doing when they do this is drilling slowly and with a sharp bit and simply removing that burr (which should not have been there in the first place). I found this burr in two of the three amados on my Jupiter flugel.... I can't see down into the main tube but I'm going to assume that there is a burr in that one too... I cleaned the burr of the other two with a special little scraper that I made out of a chainsaw file and those two now clear water very nicely. I guess one fine day I should drill out the third one as well.

    A craftsman such as Leigh (and I am presuming other folks who hand-build horns) will take the time to drill through the tubing with the right tool bit at the right speed and not leave that burr. Personally I prefer a "well installed" Amado simply because it gives the horn a cleaner look. The caveat being "well installed".
     
  6. King High

    King High New Friend

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    Feb 19, 2004
    Chas, sorry, I meant to let you know about this, so I hope you've realized by now that the amado on the main tuning slide is the double C button and the amado on the 3rd slide is the improv button.
    he he he ... hey try it. let me know how you can play with the water key open.

    fwiw, I can guarantee that there are no burrs in those slides. that was a clean horn.
    If you ever saw an amado off the horn, it has a small hole. I think maybe Drac has it right, that there is a bit of a learning curve. If you try to force the water out I think you can blow the water past the hole. Just drain it first for a second and then give it a blow through to get the rest out.
    The quick way to see if it is clogged is to fill the slide with water, It should drain right out. the amados are more susceptable to getting clogged though. ... (obviously not on a brand new horn.)
    the embarraing truth is I asked my repair guy to open up the hole in the main slide for me. He brought it back ans told me the problem was dirt accumulation. If you have a tendancy to be lazy about keeping the leadpipe/tuning slide clean, you will be complaining about the amados eventually. These days, after swabbing & rinsing my tuning slide, I usually blow through the amado the opposite way blowing at high pressure air to clear any possible remaining obstructions. I can't tell you if I've ever actually blown anything away, but it makes me feel better.

    different people tell me they are collecting water in one slide or another. I think its the excitement of having a new horn that causes you to have more moisture in your breath. :)
    If its getting in the 2nd, try draining throungh the 3rd slide. If its collecting in the 1st, I've had succuss tilting the horn sort of up/sideways to drain it back and out the bell.

    I play a pic, flugel, Bb & c with amados and don't have a bit of trouble with any of them Personally I would never want to go back to standard keys. Drac - it is probably not too late to change your mind. Its not too late till the lacquer is on the horn.
     
  7. MUSICandCHARACTER

    MUSICandCHARACTER Forte User

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    Jan 31, 2004
    Newburgh, Indiana
    PC is right. You would be surprised at how often a horn is looked at in 1000th of an inch, especially in the leadpipe area. Yet how often do we clean the horn? I have found Herco Spitballs to be a great aid. I blow them through the horn at least once a week. If it is a demo horn, I do it after every demo. Blow the spitball through about 6 times. The last time, put a few drops of Zaja Blue on the spitball and blow it through again. This puts a litte oil on the leadpipe and will greatly reduce buildup and red rot.

    Now I have never blown back through the water key .... I guess if you did that first and then used a spitball to clean out the "gunk" it might work pretty well.

    M&C
     
  8. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    757
    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    One thing I do when emptying the tuning slide, I hold all the valves halfway down. This increases the back-pressure and seems to empty the water more completely. For the 3rd valve I hold it down completely and hold 1 and 2 down halfway. Just a suggestion...
     
  9. King High

    King High New Friend

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    Feb 19, 2004
    i just wanted to clarify that the horn with the dirt accumulation was MY OWN personal horn - not Mr Starr's new WB.

    sorry about that.
     
  10. ChasStarr

    ChasStarr Pianissimo User

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    Feb 22, 2004
    NE Louisiana
    Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give them a try this weekend during my performances.

    King High, your comments concerning being a lazy trumpet player and dirt in your horn.......I resemble those remarks! :mrgreen: in the past!

    I've got my simple green, my HW brass saver, and a gorgeous new baby that will get the TLC it certainly deserves!

    By the way, my third valve amado button must be broken :shock:

    I push it down and my improv ability doesn't seem to get any better, it only seems to produce some kind of funky sound when I have to use the third valve. I want some money back :lol:

    BTW: Your MP leaves tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
     

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