Interesting dilemma

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Mark_Kindy, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. Mark_Kindy

    Mark_Kindy Mezzo Forte User

    Jul 11, 2010
    Gainesville, FL
    No more marching after this year for me, but I only use it for pep band and lead at the moment. Next year I'll be playing almost everything on the 3c anyways, because I won't be doing pep band (no time)
  2. DaTrump

    DaTrump Forte User

    Oct 21, 2011
    Huntsville, Texas
    Mark, this doesn't sound like a jazz issue, it sounds like a face issue. Go to your teacher and ask her for help
  3. codyb226

    codyb226 Banned

    Mar 9, 2011
    Florida, US
    That makes it easy then. Sell it to a freshman coming in and say it helped with your high notes. Dont worry, they will buy it.

    Then I would stick with the 3C or the ACB 3C. Then you will never have to worry about this. Maybe get a 3D if you want a bit of a shallow cup for jazz or whatever.
  4. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    As richtom pointed out, it's in your head. Really. Some guys are shocked when I tell them I use a shallow mpc most the time. "It sounds so sweet and mellow", they say. Not the traditional comment one would expect from a screamer piece. I have learned to make the horn and mpc do what I want to do. It takes practice, but as patkins pointed out, it will save you a lot of money. :thumbsup:
  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Mark, not so wierd. My favorite mouthpiece was the Schilke 14a4a as my every day piece. It was the easiest for over all use, gave me my most open and brightest sound on my Old's Recording. I like that sound. That is the sound I had on our bands first CD. I loved that sound. Why because I am a trumpet player. Unfortunately, my band leader, a bass player, wants me to play darker, so I now use my Martin Committee with the Olds 3 mouthpiece. It is not as easy to play, but I have learned to re-addjust and now can maintain focus on the sweet spot for that mouthpiece. I miss my 14a4a.
  6. letmeplay7

    letmeplay7 Pianissimo User

    Mar 1, 2012
    mid-continent, USA
    Tobylou I totally agree with you. I went thru a phase and bought several MP's. I was wasting good, quality practice time messing with them, trying to find the SWEET SPOT. Glad I learned quickly...for me, familiarity and confidence allow my horn/mp to become part of me. Nowbesides my 3C I only have a 14A4C I got back in '78 I never play (why do I never hear about that MP anymore?)
  7. nieuwguyski

    nieuwguyski Forte User

    Aug 9, 2004
    Santa Cruz County, CA

    Why doesn't your teacher want you to use the ACB mouthpiece in your lessons? Does she have a problem with how you sound on it?
  8. amzi

    amzi Forte User

    Feb 18, 2010
    Northern California
    Embrace the dark side--play the 13A4a for everything.
    For the last 20+ years the 13A4a has been my go to mouthpiece for my MLV Strad. I learned how to shape my sound to suit the situation and you can too. It will just take some work.
  9. rufflicks

    rufflicks Pianissimo User

    Dec 9, 2009
    Nor Cal
    Might want to bring both ends closer to the middle, think about going to a 14 rim and play a 14a4a for the commercial stuff and a 14 for legit. Rim diameter is between the 2 you play now and the cups are not going to be so different. Same basic rim dimensions on both 14 pieces. You say you have a better sound on the Schilke then try another Schilke, or 2.
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I think that there is major confusion about what the problem is here. It is NOT the hardware.

    Think about the process of playing. We start with a buzz, that sets up a standing wave in the horn, enough of that wave "leaks" out of the bell to reflect off of the floor, stand, ceiling and walls, gets back to the ears, is processed by the brain that tells the lips what to change to get the desired "color and shape".

    The physical creates the initial sound that the mental corrects based on the muscle habits that we have.

    Now, enter a second mouthpiece. If we are playing one piece a lot more, or it happens to match what is in our heads, the brain sends the WRONG signals to the face. We experience what Mark describes. To those only with interest in treating symptoms, the safari starts - generally with expensive, but miserable results. In Marks case, his brain is sending correction signals for the 13A4A when it is not attached to his face.

    Part of the problem is the completely different sound, another part is the efficiency, the biggest part is the balance of practice time with the mouthpieces in acoustic spaces that we perform in.

    All of this can be described as a simple servo loop (google it). Change one of the components in the loop and the servo programming does not do what is intended. Programming in this case means enough time on both pieces to firmly secure the patterns in our brain.

    When my students discover this phenomenon we spend a lesson on servo loops, playing outdoors, with the eyes covered, with the valves wrapped in a towel. We remove different parts of the audible/physical/tactile experience and take notes as to what changes. The result is less dependency on the physical.

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