Interesting read........

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gabe....., Mar 5, 2013.

  1. gabe.....

    gabe..... New Friend

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    I just started reading a book called "Encyclopedia of the Pivot System" by Dr. Ronald Reinhardt. It's basically 237 pages of Questions and answers.......for me it will no doubt raise many questions of my own and I may even learn something......has anybody read and learned anything from this book? Or has had an instructor use it?
     
  2. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the Reinhardt's teachings have merit, but can be dangerous if used incorrectly. A worthwhile read: An Introduction to Donald S. Reinhardt's Pivot System

    David Turnbull, Professor for trumpet at Washington State University did his Doctoral dissertation on the Reinhardt system, so it is not snake oil.

    Personally, I believe that an effective pivot is a side effect of good trumpet playing--not the cause. It can bring insights but shouldn't become dogma.
     
  3. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    " I try to get the air to go through that little hole, if I can."

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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  4. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Wilktone is a "pivot" teacher, so if he sees this, he can give you the lowdown. VB is absolutely correct. You cannot do it on your own. Even the pivot folks warn against "self education" of the method.
     
  5. pops

    pops Pianissimo User

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    There were several versions of different lengths.
    The original concept came from the 50s.
    The big 400 page book was printed in 1974 and then a new reprint just a few years ago.

    His discussion on breathing, especially timed breathing is great.
    There is a section that outlines how players should set to play. Meaning the steps to get ready to play and this is often a big help to people.

    If you start with just YOUR embouchure type and don't worry about the things that don't concern YOU, then it is much easier.

    Pops
     
  6. gabe.....

    gabe..... New Friend

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    Maybe I can find an instructor where I live who can teach this method...........after I become more familiar with this method I'll have a better idea of how I can improve. All this is very exciting to me and I look forward to the experience.
     
  7. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Lucky you! Wilktone works /lives? in Asheville!! Here's a link to his site.

    About
     
  8. wilktone

    wilktone New Friend

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    I do live in Asheville, Gabe. Feel free to drop me a line if you want to hook up and find out about your embouchure type. If you have any questions I'll try to answer them here.


    Dave
     
  9. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    See!!!!
     
  10. wilktone

    wilktone New Friend

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    Some minor corrections. In an interview with Thomas Everett called An Interview with Dr. Donald S. Reinhardt published in 1974 The Brass World Reinhardt states that his original concept came in 1939. He published the Pivot System Manuals in 1942.

    My edition of the 1973 Encyclopedia of the Pivot System is 237 pages long with 12 pages of appendixes. I think the most recent reprint is much shorter as it single spaces and squeezes a lot more text into each page. That more recent, shorter edition is also filled with typographical errors and the organization that was originally selling that edition has been trying to get all those copies replaced with reprints of the original edition. If anyone happens to have this edition I recommend you contact Dave Sheetz (his web site seems to be down right now, but you can send him an email or PM him here) and see if you can get it replaced.

    You must have an edition that is single pages, rather than text on both sides. I've never seen a copy like that. If you have an edition that has text on both sides that is 400 pages please let me know, I'd like to see if I can track down a copy as it must have much more in it than I've seen before.

    That raises some interesting thoughts about practice and teaching brass technique. First of all, I prefer to avoid the term "pivot" because most people think it means tilting the horn up and down. That may be how Reinhardt originally defined it, but later he came to define this as moving the mouthpiece and lips together as a single unit along the teeth and gums in a generally upward and downward direction while changing registers. The term I prefer to use is "embouchure motion," coined by Doug Elliott. Doug was a student of Reinhardt's and was my teacher.

    As far as whether this is a side effect of good brass playing, that's probably similar to saying that efficient tonguing or correct fingerings is a side effect of good playing. Everyone has an "embouchure motion," although how it works in the details is unique to the player. Good brass players have an efficient embouchure motion, whether or not they are consciously aware of the motion (in the link in the paragraph above you can watch a video of different player's embouchure motions, most of whom were unaware of it). My take on this is that it is best to be aware of how it works in your own playing and spend a bit of time paying attention to making sure that you're doing it correctly for your own embouchure, then forget about it and spend time working on breathing, tonguing, musical expression, whatever else you're trying to practice. On the gig you forget all about it and just try to play well.

    That was also Reinhardt's thoughts on the matter too. Anyone who makes a dogma out of it misunderstands the Pivot System. I do know several former students of Reinhardt's who are quite insistent that it should be discussed and taught exactly as Reinhardt did, but since he taught everyone differently and even changed his ideas over his career that becomes problematic, in my opinion.


    Dave
     

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