Interesting read........

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gabe....., Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Branson

    Branson Piano User

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    The Encyclopedia of the Pivot System" by Dr. Ronald Reinhardt used to be the authority at the time it first came out and was the source most trumpet instructors went to for explanations to their students as to what happens when we played, back then.

    Today there are as many ideas as to what happens in the throat and mouth areas as there are new mouthpieces and horn on the market.

    The old school advocated a pivot and many current views disagree with this thought.

    Each player must decide what works and doesn't work for themselves. What players sometimes believe does not prove out in deeper investigations into the action of the jaw, tongue, throat while playing.

    You may find the following film helpful when you start analyzing your own playing style.

    What is Really Happening in Your Body When You Play Trumpet? | The Trumpet Blog



    Dr. Ronald Reinhardt's case histories should be required reading by for all trumpet players regardless of their own understandings.
     
  2. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    One can not guess or know anyway at exactly what angle the horn should be for any given note. If the horn what's to move, let it move, just don't call it a system.
     
  3. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Hmm, is it a "system" or a "method" (or a rose)??? Here's a nice brief comparison of the two. Difference Between Method and System | Difference Between

    Someone, somewhere, once said, 'I don't teach you how to play, I teach you to teach yourself how to play'.
     
  4. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    welcome to TM gabe -- were glad to have you
     
  5. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    thank you so much for making my life EASY and ENJOYABLE --- and HELPING ME GET TAUGHT ---- TOBYLOU8 ---- YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!
     
  6. wilktone

    wilktone New Friend

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    Interesting to read that as I had thought that Reinhardt's ideas were always somewhat controversial (unfairly, in my opinion). Orchestral players in particular seemed to be reluctant to widely adopt or even acknowledge his ideas had merit. Supposedly there were some high profile orchestral players who went to Reinhardt for help, but wouldn't publicly admit it.

    Honestly, the only current views that disagree with what Reinhardt defined as a "pivot" are people who misunderstand what he meant by this unfortunate term. Many people, perhaps most, think it means tilting the horn. Again, this is not what Reinhardt (eventually) meant by a "pivot." If you understand that he meant sliding the lips and mouthpiece together as a single unit up and down along the teeth and gums when changing registers you can observe that this is a phenomena that is a feature of all brass embouchures, whether or not the player is consciously aware of it.

    Case in point...

    This is not what Reinhardt meant by "pivot." However, careful experimentation can help a player learn what angle a given note offers the most resonant and focused sound for a particular note and how it will change as a player changes registers. A player's teeth and jaw are not flat surfaces and as a player makes the "embouchure motion" sliding the mouthpiece and lips together along the teeth and gums the precise horn angle will need to alter in order to keep a solid surface underneath. The jaw is usually not static either, but will move forward, backward, or even side to side slightly and this will affect the horn angle as well.

    Reinhardt regretted using the term "system" to describe his pedagogy for the very reason that people shared your view here. His goal was to help each player work out the physical mechanics that fit their anatomy, so his instructions were unique to the individual. Lots of people heard the term "system" and thought is was a one-size-fits-all approach.

    Also, you need to understand that some people will resist any motion at all (horn angle or embouchure motion) either consciously or unconsciously. Being unaware of how your embouchure motion helps change registers also means that frequently players will have inconsistencies in their playing that may not cause difficulties at first, but hinder good playing down the line. For example, many players will make too much embouchure motion in the very top or very bottom of their register and end up having to reverse the direction to continue going further. It works, so a point, but usually works better if they can learn to keep the amount of embouchure motion consistent and keep it moving consistently in the same direction. Sometimes player will hook off the track of their embouchure motion at a certain point and it usually works best to keep it moving in a straight line. Some players need to make this line go somewhat side to side and not straight up and down. There are lots of reasons why being aware of the embouchure motion (and horn angle changes) can be helpful rather than simply allowing it to change without conscious awareness.

    And there's a time and place to forget all about that and concentrate on playing expressively.

    Dave
     
    tobylou8 likes this.
  7. Branson

    Branson Piano User

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    Original statement- "The Encyclopedia of the Pivot System" by Dr. Ronald Reinhardt used to be the authority at the time it first came out and was the source most trumpet instructors went to for explanations to their students as to what happens when we played, back then".

    Response- "I had thought that Reinhardt's ideas were always somewhat controversial (unfairly, in my opinion)".

    Response to response- No

    Response- "Supposedly there were some high profile orchestral players who went to Reinhardt for help, but wouldn't publicly admit it".

    Response to response- Very difficult to prove.
     
  8. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    I have seen pics of Maynard with Dr. Rienhardt.
     
  9. wilktone

    wilktone New Friend

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    No, his ideas weren't controversial or no, not unfairly dismissed?

    As I said, "supposedly." I'm just repeating what I heard, not citing sources.

    Dave
     
  10. Branson

    Branson Piano User

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    Jan 16, 2011
    Originally Posted by Branson
    Response- "I had thought that Reinhardt's ideas were always somewhat controversial (unfairly, in my opinion)".

    Response to response- No
    No, his ideas weren't controversial or no, not unfairly dismissed?

    Yes
     

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