Intonation, a reality check.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by turtlejimmy, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. B15M

    B15M Forte User

    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    This is so far from true it's funny. Maybe it was meant to be funny.
  2. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Tuning is hard to talk about because a good portion is in what I describe as "Upsidedown Land" (not to be confused with the Southern hemisphere) and "Rightsideup Land." Upsidedown Land is home of equal temperament--the fretted string instruments, pianos and such. It is a communistic world, where each note is of equal importance, regardless of the function within a chord. There is no polite adjusting for other's notes, just everyone doing their job, like in a factory. Individual notes are not in tune with themselves, because the mass of strings do not cooperate with the length. They don't need to, because that's the way things roll in Upside-down Land.

    In contrast to the benign communism in Upsidedown Land, the instruments in Rightsideup Land, wind instruments, non fretted strings, pipe organs and such worship THE CHORD. In Rightsideup Land the instruments and their players just don't go through the motions like in Upsidedown Land--each note is treated with reverence and a certain amount of fear. The thirds of the major chords need be cradeld 14/100's of a semitone lower, the fifths 2/100's gently lifted.

    If we tune the chord rather than the note, on our side of the bell we hear a "hollow" sound, on the other side the chords "ring."
  3. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

    Oct 19, 2008
    Flinders Vic Australia
    I have a PDF of an old Boosey and Hawkes monograph 'The Boosey and Hawkes Compensating System Fully Explained", the appendix gives a great explanation of the differences between Equal Temperement, Natural harmonic and Just Intonation series.

    If anyone would like a copy send me an email and I will send it, approx 1Mb.

    Regards, Stuart.
  4. B15M

    B15M Forte User

    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    Perfect !!
  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    I tune to relative pitch...

    When my relatives pitch a fit about my practicing in the house when they are visiting... I tune them out.
  6. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    why would anyone complain????????????????????????????????????
  7. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    Occasionally, it can be very funny to play with an ensemble. It was even funnier to play in high school when our band director would purposely play in a different key. When we stopped playing and listened, he was playing perfectly albeit different. Once I mistakenly selected a French Horn book and tried to play it on Bb trumpet without transposition ... what a mess. One day, another student pulled a trick on me when I was playing euphonium and substituted Eb alto horn part for my music ... that wasn't very funny. Point: when others are out of tune, it is impossible to salvage a song unless you can play out of tune like they do ... but even then, such is seldom successful ... mostly erratic. I don't much enjoy beginner's recitals.
  8. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    Jun 6, 2010

    You were meant to be funny ...... obviously, it didn't work out that way. :-(

  9. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    We spend a portion of our band performance time working IN beginner bands, sitting in the band and playing their music - the music as a ensemble improves markedly, the kids find that they now have a target, and can understand how the piece can sound - particularly intonation - especially the emphasis in individual but identical notes (loud, soft, medium, soft in 4/4 - it seems it's not taught anymore) - yes Ed, beginner performances are painful - but we've all been there.

    Still with us Turtle? - Good.
  10. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

    Jul 20, 2006
    Heart of Dixie
    No beginning students, but we have quite a mixture of young and older players in our large church orchestra. There are some very good players in the orchestra, and we tackle a lot of challenging music. It's a great experience for the kids (middle and high school) to sit among accomplished players and see how it's done, learning some good habits and techniques along the way. I wish I had that opportunity when I was that age.

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