Intonation, a reality check.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by turtlejimmy, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. SmoothOperator

    SmoothOperator Mezzo Forte User

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    What about if you are playing lead. Shouldn't the lead player be able to peg a tuner, and let the followers harmonize?

    I have a BOSS tuner, great tool. Especially when I was starting I had a difficult time hearing the intervals and slurs on trumpet like, "was that a Bb or an F".
     
  2. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    Never mind...:cool:
     
  3. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Dale,

    Sorry for being so alarmed at your earlier post ....:lol: I definitely get it now. I was just thinking that this thread is a good one for me and I'm learning some key things here and that I should be paying you guys ..... (don't get any ideas:evil:).

    I should point out, for anyone who misunderstood, the goal is not "perfect pitch" (it never was) but rather better relative pitch. I need to hear the intervals more clearly so that I can land on my notes in practice. Perfect pitch, or being able to peg any note out of the air is pretty worthless in music, unless maybe you're launching some piece of music acapella. But, sitting there and playing a very long tone, without wavering in pitch, is easier to get a feel for with this tuner. I think that's really useful.

    I can't understand why anyone would take a tuner with them to a gig or practice with other people. That sounds like a bad hall monitor from hell (who would always be wrong).

    Turtle
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  4. hahkeystah

    hahkeystah Piano User

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    in the bands i've played in, us brass players would use a tuner at the beginning to account for the environment (i.e. temp, humidity whatever). after that, play by ear. if one person is 15 cents sharp, you have a problem. if the whole band is 15 cents sharp... very few ppl can tell lol
     
  5. SmoothOperator

    SmoothOperator Mezzo Forte User

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    Its like those people, back in the day when metronomes first came out, that said, "Why do want to practice with a metronome just show up and follow the conductor."

    I think the one problem with learning with a tuner though, is that now I only know how to read piano music. I wish mine had a transposition setting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  6. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

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    Tuners are not error proof themselves. I enjoyed reading the excellent booklet by Gerard Webster "Improving Intonation" (c Best Press, 2006. Hoyt Editions). It has a complete and interesting discussion of tuners, and contributors here pretty much reach the same conclusion: it's only a tool.
     
  7. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    TJ sez:
    I need to hear the intervals more clearly so that I can land on my notes in practice.
    ---
    Ear training and being in tune are separate situations. You have to be able to hear in your head what it sounds like from (for ex:) C to F# or C to whatever.
    Maintaining intonation? Play and record your practice. Then, listen to your practice and notice where you fall out of intonation (Which is usually where we don't use the slides on a note that's held for more than an beat).
    Here's something you might find fun:
    There's a hypothesis (SG Effect) me and another are working on which suggests:
    If you take two trumpet players(instruments), put them about 8 feet apart, have them to play a single long tone in unison at equal volumes, something weird happens when both are EXACTLY IN TUNE and not drownding each other out.
    Your sound will basically be "recieved" by the other trumpet. That means your sound will enter and also be projected by the other horn, and visa versa. Try this simple experiment.
    >Have two people that can play in tune and play a long tone
    >Play the long tone in unison and adjust the intonation to where there are absolutley no "waves" in the sound.
    >Adjust the volume to where you are not louder than the other person but loud enough to not get drowned out.
    >Once you get it adjusted, it will feel like the other person's sound is coming out of "your" horn.
    The idea is that the matching frequencies and volumes allows the two sounds to merge into one another.
    This is another fun way to learn about intonation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
  8. hahkeystah

    hahkeystah Piano User

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    markie, what your saying makes sense. if your sharing the same wavelength than theres no reason that wouldn't happen. how's your theory work in the instance where those two players are playing exactly an octave apart??
     
  9. reedy

    reedy Piano User

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    I use a app on my desire running android called G strings that works very well not sure about any for the iphone tho, I know there are some out there but not sure what there called....
     
    hahkeystah likes this.
  10. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    --
    Hi Robert,
    I don't know.
    At the present time I'm wrestling with writing on this particular phenomenon (SGE) so it can hopefully be submitted in scholarly journals.
    Writing in APA or scholarly formats suck. I love research. I hate writing about it.
    It is a neat phenomenon and a great way to check it a person can play in tune which correlates well with the topic of intonation.
    An interesting thing seems to occur from time to time. It appears that some people have a "need" to play a little out of tune or play louder than the other person to hear or orient themselves.
    The balance of perfect intonation and balanced volume I think scares some people because they can't hear themselves and they lose their bearings. They have a problem getting the hang of hearing the sound of the other person's horn within their own horn. But that too is fodder for another study.
     

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