Intonation, a reality check.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by turtlejimmy, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    That's assuming they are capable of playing in tune. They may be the ones who need to adjust to you (and the rest of the group).
     
  2. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    This is sometimes a problem in amateur bands - you may not be the player who is out of tune, I too have found this to be a problem and it's only when the BD gets each player to solo with a tuning note that the truth comes out - here is a place for a tuner.
     
  3. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    A tuner helped us convince a cafe owner to tune his piano, that we had to suffer with once a week on jam nights. When the d*** thing finally got tuned, it was like a miracle.

    Turtle
     
  4. B-Flat Cat

    B-Flat Cat Pianissimo User

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    I posted earlier in this thread just to say the Korg KM-40 seems to be a cool gizmo and watched as the discussion thickened; that's what I like about Trumpet Master. I would like to throw in an analogy here for what it's worth:

    When I was learning the finer points of photography (that's what I do, by the way), I watched a photographer who was my main mentor take incident readings with a hand-held light meter around the interior of a church where we were about to shoot a wedding. I told him I was thinking of getting a hand-held meter and asked what kind he thought I should buy. He asked me, "Do you need a light meter?" I answered yes, to which he replied, "Don't buy one until you don't need it any more." It took me a while to understand that one, but I took his advice. I finally bought a meter a few years later and the cameras I use today have built-in meters, but, to this day, I use a meter when I don't have complete control of the lighting to confirm the settings I've already dialed in on the camera based on my sense of overall brightness of the scene and desired tonal effect in the photograph. And I don't always "peg" the exposure because a soulless device like a light meter cannot see the world the way I do, just as a tuner cannot hear the music the way I do.

    Electronic tuners and light meters: useful reference tools as long as you don't really need them.
     
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  5. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Hey B-FlatCat,

    It's not the same at all. A light meter is a basic tool of photography.

    I was a fashion photographer for around 7 years and I can tell you that a hand held incident light meter was THE most widely used tool of my peers back then ... late 80's and early 90's, where everything was on film. I used it constantly. So did all the pros I knew. Everyone that was shooting fashion back then, or advertising, or weddings or whatever was using film and if it was color film, it was transparencies and they all used hand held incident meters. Nobody I ever knew could guess well enough for slide film. I had those color films fine tuned so that a tenth of a stop made a difference. Black and white was of course hugely more forgiving. You could get by guessing in a lot of situations. But never with color slide film. Sometimes light meters weren't enough! The clients wanted to see Polaroids. (I always metered for all my black and white too.)

    Of course it's a lot different now with digital. But you still see pros using light meters. I'm sure professional trumpet players have gotten along fine without electronic tuners for years but pro photographers have always used light meters. Anyway, it's just a highly accurate reference to the volume of light in a given circumstance, the photographer always interprets it for their desired effect (or has the camera on automatic ... it's still a meter reading).

    Turtle
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
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  6. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    Nice comment Turtle but B-FlatCat's analogy speaks to the discussion quite nicely from my perspective. That's not to say your comments are invalid but B-FlatCat's example does 'shed some light' by a slightly different mechanism - we sometimes need to look for the lessons that give us our own "aha" moments. Well said both.
     
  7. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

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    What ted says.

    I do play in a amateur brass band, and conduct another and experience
    this from both sides.
    When the bands are not prepared for the music they are going to play,
    it often sounds awful intonation wise. After a while, when the band(s) is
    more familiar with the music, the intonation improves. This is the time I use to
    check the tuning of the band. I never let the players look at the tuner when
    the tuning note is set, simply because: most players will try to bend the note into tune
    if they can see how the tuning device reacts and then try to deny that they are
    playing out of tune and will not move the tuning slide because
    "it has always been in this position, and I am not going to change anything"
    and continues to play out of tune :dontknow:

    I have heard about players that tunes the horn at home and then tells that everybody
    else in the band plays out of tune......:shock:
    (I know one of these cornet players personally. He is always out of tune, intonates like he is playing a clarinet..)
     
  8. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    No no no .... It's not a good analogy. Pro photographers don't guess at exposure, it's just not done in my experience. Yes, I get the idea of the analogy ... but ALL pros use light meters is what I'm getting at. You HAVE to use one. There is nothing like a pair of ears for the photog to tell is he's "in tune" with the light.

    Totally different. A light meter is ALWAYS in use, every time you take a shot, unless you are into putting it on "manual" and guessing. My clients would have had my head for that sort of activity.:evil:

    However, if B-FlatCat is using his eyes .... Rock and roll. He's in good company. Henri Cartier Bresson also didn't use a meter, or so I read somewhere .... and look at his work! Great. I supposed you could "tune" your eyes over time .... I always called the hand held meter the weakest link in the gear. Every time I dropped the meter into a lake or ocean, without a backup in my bag, my photo sessions were over.:dontknow:

    Turtle
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
  9. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Here's the kind of work I used to do ....



    Madrid, 1992 (great light in Spain!)

    [​IMG]


    Maria from Madrid ...1992. That was my hostal room balcony ... One of my favorite shots, this was on my business card for years.

    [​IMG]


    Cross processing (slide film processed into negatives), 1/2 sec. exposure (on the tripod) .... lit with one 60 watt light bulb. Fun stuff ...:cool:

    [​IMG]




    All of this was originally on film and digitized with a film scanner. Ahhhhhhh.... those WERE the days ......:roll:

    Turtle


    Warning: models may be thinner than they appear on your screen. :lol: My computer screen is stretching them a bit, side to side. As I recall .... most of them were sticks back then.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011
  10. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    Beautiful photos Turtle .... and you've so cleverly hidden the trumpets, I saw nary a one. I will look again. ROFL
     

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