Is Cryogenics dead?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Repair and Modification' started by MJ, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

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    In theory cryo treatment will relieve internal stresses in the metal of the instrument, but will have little effect on the stresses induced by improper design or assembly.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  2. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

    Age:
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    In theory cryo treatment will relieve internal stresses in the metal of the instrument, but will have little or no effect on the stresses induced by improper design or assembly.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  3. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    There is a big difference between a cold winter day and near absolute 0

    I believe it realigns the molecules into a more uniform pattern or something. If you have stressed areas such as a dent under the brace or if the bell is twisted, resetting the molecules via freezing would just make the horn 'reset' to the imperfect horn. Getting the stress out prior to freezing it allows the horn to be reset to the shape where it is most true.
     
  4. MJ

    MJ Administrator Staff Member

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    I wonder if I would see a big difference if I cryod the dime I put in the bottom of my third valve cap on my Bach Bb. It's a little dinged up but I think fairly stress free for a 2000.
     
  5. patdublc

    patdublc Pianissimo User

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    I think you might want to have that dime ultrasonically cleaned and drug tested prior to getting the cryo treatment. You wouldn't want to be disqualified from any gigs due to having a pumped up dime in your horn.

    But, all kidding aside, I haven't really heard many storeis about horns coming out of cryo treatment and playing worse. I think the typical situation is that they play the same or some better. The problem is that you have to pay for the treatment just to find out.
     
  6. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    I don't think there is a better or worse in this situation. It is more about "it plays more like I want it to, less like I want it to, or the same"

    patdublc are you questioning the cleaning power of ultrasonics? or am I just terrible at interpreting the internet?
     
  7. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    I have read a lot about this on here and TH. I have come to the conclusion that freezing does nothing but heating will relieve stress in the metal.
     
  8. stchasking

    stchasking Forte User

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    Snake oil.
    It has to do with differential equations of vibrations.
    There is no place in the differential equations for prestress or internal stresses.

    Boundary conditions are a part of the differential equation. Gripping the horn with your left hand will change the vibration of your horn.

    We go through this every two years.
     
  9. bagmangood

    bagmangood Forte User

    I've heard good stuff about Osmun's resonance enhancement
    Resonance Enhancement
    I've had a teacher who had his piccolo done, and liked it better after...
     
  10. NickD

    NickD Forte User

    I was part of the great freeze off with TPIN some ten years ago. The effects were minimal at best.

    According to Dr. Moore (physicist and editor of the Science Desk of the ITG Journal), the cryo treatment just might have some effect on a trumpet if it were made from ferrous metals. However, it is apparently well known metallurgy theory that this process has no affect on brass. However, it might affect the SOLDER. Moore said it could be like "pre-aging your horn." It seems that a horn with big thick solder joints might be affected. However, in most cases, it really won't do much for a trumpet.

    The TPIN test was a double blind. It was almost impossible to tell much difference in most of the horns compared to the placebo. However, I did pick a Blackburn as having been frozen, and it was. It was a heavy axe, and, if memory serves, had ample solder joints.

    Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't spend for it. The mouthpiece you pick will hav e much more impact on the way the horn feels.

    Just my $.02 worth.

    Nick
     

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