Is it accurate to say there's 2 types of endurance???

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by rviser, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. rviser

    rviser Pianissimo User

    Dec 26, 2008
    Ok, I may be way off here, but I think when talking endurance, there are two types. They might be called short term and long term, or something along those lines:

    1. Short term - Ability to play long periods of time without taking the horn away from your face. Such as when playing a long piece that has hardly any rests at all.

    2. Long term - Ability to play long periods of time, as in through a long gig all night, and still feel strong throughout the show.

    If this is correct, are there different approaches towards developing these types of endurance? I'm guessing the logical answer is, to develop short term, just play long periods of time w. out taking the horn away from your face. And to develop long term, play like 3 to 4 hours or more a day w. rests throughout the practice sessions.

    Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.

  2. RobertSlotte

    RobertSlotte Pianissimo User

    Jul 7, 2008
    Yes it is accurate. And the answer is so simple that: what you want to get better on you have to practice/spend more time on.
  3. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    Hi rvisor.
    Markie here, Yes I'd have to agree that you have two different types there. It may be safe to say that "you are how you practice"
  4. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

    Nov 5, 2008
    Here the thing though if you have No.2 then you also have No.1 covered but the oposite is not true.

    The ability to play for extended time periods like all night long is refered to as anerobic endurance. Generaly when one wants to build anorobic endurance it is better to do a bunch of intense training sessions spaced through out the day and build duration onto each session while redueing the amount of rest time between each session. Sooner or latter the rest times are all but non-exhistant and you are basicly doing one giant long session. That is the ideal method. If youhave to work or take care of kids or your parents etc.....THen that is not really an option so then you have to just do one session maybe two a day make one like say the early morning session about skill refinement and the one latter in the evening as an endurance mock gig session. You add time as you can to the latter until you can consistently last. ANy chance you get like driveing to or from work or sitting in the car waiting for the wife or girlfriend to get done shopping etc.... you can be buzzing or doing the pencil drill etc......

    If you are a working artist you have to take things slower at first because you cannot afford to be so sore that you can not work on demand and you cannot afford to degrade your style even if it is a temp. situation because you are so sore etc.....The same recover methods used by athletes like visualization,massage,heat and cold can all be used by the modern musician to speed recovery since embouchure is all about muscles fascial muscles that is and muscles are muscles. You can do isometric facial exercise to invigerate and oxyigenate the muscles as well.
  5. Keith Fiala

    Keith Fiala Pianissimo User

    Feb 21, 2007
    Austin, Texas

    You're right (as most everyone else has said too). I've found that working on my "short term" endurance increases my long term endurance. It's no different than doing any other kind of physical exercise. You're building strength and stamina in muscles. The more they're used (and then rested) the better they respond and the longer they last. Personally, I play through the Saint-Jacome studies... they're a pain in the rear and 2 pages in length... but really do wonders for endurance.

  6. oldlips48

    oldlips48 Piano User

    Mar 1, 2007
    Hi rviser,

    I agree. If I play a piece with essentially no rests, I feel beat by the end of it. But give me 5 minutes and I'm ready to roll again. Then there's longer term. If I've been playing pieces over a longer period of time (2 hrs) even with breaks in between, at the end of the set I'm beat.

    I compare it to weightlifting. You do a set, then you give yourself a minute to recover and you're ready for another set. Yet at the end of the workout, you know you've done a good job.

    To repeat what everyone else has said, practice builds endurance. The more time spent practicing, the more improvement you'll notice in both your short and long term endurance.

  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    They both amount to the same thing and depending on what you need for your next gig, influence your practice session. If you are playing in a marching band, you need BOTH. What do you do then?

    Nope, I think they are the same. Because the world is not perfect and we don't always have the time that we need, our practicing needs to be optimized for the chore coming up. The exercizes are EXACTLY the same. More time on the face means practice that way - being careful not to beat yourself up. Long concerts means practice that way.

    If you have 2+ hours a day for the horn, you don't need to comprimise anything!
  8. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

    May 4, 2007
    Greensboro, NC
    It also depends on how fast your embouchure can recover. A healthy embouchure recovers faster. The better in shape you are the shorter your recovery time.
  9. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    I know I have two types of endurance's ,I play lead trumpet in big bands and play very little in the staff and can last all night, but when practicing Arban`s or playing duets I tire quicker than I did 41 years ago when in high school, when all my playing was in the staff because I only had a Eb above the staff.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009
  10. occidental

    occidental New Friend

    Jan 16, 2009
    It all depends on the type of work that you do. If you play in a band that uses short trumpet phrases in sporadic moments then you probably need to practice in a way that gets your body used to that type of playing. For the longest time I would practice that way and being in mariachi music my longest gig playing was for about 15 hours. Obviously I would get tired towards the end of it but because I wouldn't play 4 min. phrases every 10 minutes I didn't kill myself. Now, I've been working towards my short-term endurance. I've been working on Cat Anderson's long tones for about 1 1/2 months now. I started being able to hold a soft G for 2 minutes. Now I pushed it up to 6 minutes 5 seconds-a new record for me. My short term endurance has gone up tremendously but it certainly takes time and lots of persistence.
    About the type of practice: I've learned that by playing long phrases without removing the mouthpiece from your lips requires tons of REST. That's how it's been working for me so far.

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