is "open" in high student trumpet thatnotes?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by amazingmorris, Mar 7, 2007.

  1. amazingmorris

    amazingmorris New Friend

    Feb 21, 2007
    I have read some reviews which say that some student trumpets become overly "tight" or "stuffy" in the upper register, even when merely playing a little above the staff.
    Why are they like that?
    Are there any student trumpets which are more open in the upper register?
    I want to play up to High F (one octave above top-line F) on a regular basis and have a rather open feel / sound for ballads.
    I am thinking in terms of the following 4 trumpets, all of which have approximately the same bore size:
    Bach TR300
    Yamaha 2320
    King 601
    Holton 601

    (Please don't tell me to get a more expensive trumpet than that, because I am disabled and cannot afford anything more than a $200 used trumpet, and even that will be a challenge to afford.)

    I know that the sound and feel are not strictly bound by the bore size, because 30 years ago I tried a Holton and a Schilke both having a .468 bore size and they felt / sounded quite different.

    Is the stuffiness in high notes perhaps related to some trumpets having an inherent resonant frequency that is not in synch with those high notes, due to type of metal used or thickness of metal used?

    (The best trumpet I ever tried was the Holton ST302 of 35 years ago, if anybody wants to get me one for Christmas. That trumpet was open yet it also sang with a beautiful tone.)

    BTW, to cram everything into one post, anyone know anything about the Holton T606R which *allegedly* has a .470 bore even though the model number would lead me to believe that it is a student trumpet?
    see near the bottom of this Web page:
    eBay: TRUMPET: HOLTON - RESTORED-GORGEOUS (item 320084854816 end time Mar-01-07 19:00:00 PST)

    - morris, amateur playing again after 30 year hiatus
  2. amazingmorris

    amazingmorris New Friend

    Feb 21, 2007
    "is "open" in high student trumpet thatnotes?"

    :dontknow: ???

    I did a copy / paste using a Bill Gates' designed computer.

    But it took the first third of the sentence and stuck it in the middle.

    It was *supposed* to say:
    "student trumpet that is open in high notes?"

    - morris
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    welcome to TM.
    High register is NOT dependent on what trumpet you use. Naturally, there are instruments that make life easier in the stratosphere, but they do cost more money. The freedom is NOT based on bore size and at $200, you do not have a big choice anyway.
    The stuffiness that you mention has a lot to do with the market that these instruments were designed for. A student instrument has to offer good tone, be in tune, be durable and easy to maintain. The valves have to work well even when covered with peanut butter. All of this when being played by beginners without proper breath support or any musical concept. Those technical trade offs all require a sacrifice somewhere. It is impossible to define which tradeoffs the manufacturers choose as in this price segment, the piece to piece consistency is not 100% either.
    I have never played any student instrument where a high F, G or even double C was not readily available - even although it didn't just pop out by itself (it doesn't on a pro horn either). An alternative for you may be a second hand non student instrument in reasonable shape! It is amazing how the price asked goes down based on "cosmetics" and not playability!
    All this having been said, your high range is based on YOUR chops, willpower, breathing and approach to the horn. No reasonable hunk of brass screwed to your face can slow you down if the rest is OK.
    Make sure that before you buy any of those (or any other) instruments, that you and somebody else with high chops plays it and determines its suitability. NEVER buy a mouthpiece or trumpet alone! Try and demo it in the type of rooms you will be performing in. The sound and feel change dramatically based on surrounding acoustics (another difference between a student and pro horn). The effort applied before the purchase is the BEST investment that you can make!
    Any of the models that you suggest would be fine - if you pick a good one. You could also add Jupiter to the shortlist of reputable manufacturers of inexpensive instruments!
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  4. Eclipsehornplayer

    Eclipsehornplayer Forte User

    Sep 14, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    I agree with Rowuk,

    Buy what you can afford and make it work for you. The upper register is a product or your embouchure, mouthpiece, and air support. I guarentee you that I could go lay down 10,000.00 on a trumpet and I'd still not be able to play higher the D over high C!

    Good luck!
  5. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    Sep 29, 2004

    When all else fails, try reading the post. Yes, the title was unclear and you made your point but his post was quite clear.

    Rowuk, thanks for being helpful in your usual lucid way.

  6. Dave

    Dave Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2007
  7. bilboinsa

    bilboinsa Piano User

    Jan 24, 2006
    San Antonio, TX
    Yeah, me too! If you find a horn, ANY horn, that will "give" you this, let me know. I would pay that $10,000 for it...

    Seriously, I think the horns that you listed would all be fine if sufficient practice was put into the goal. But don't dismiss older horns. I sit next to a much better player than me in one of my bands. I had him try out an old horn that I was considering buying. He sounded GREAT on it. The horn was an old Conn, and I only paid $300 for it. One of the best deals I ever made.

    Good luck to you. :)
  8. amazingmorris

    amazingmorris New Friend

    Feb 21, 2007
  9. amazingmorris

    amazingmorris New Friend

    Feb 21, 2007

    Perhaps I didn't ask my original question clearly?

    While blindfolded any first-chair high school trumpet player could both feel and hear the difference between a Bach Strad and a Holton SDT302 even though both are professional trumpets.
    The Holton blows more freely and has a brighter sound.

    I was hoping for recommendations for possible similar differences among student trumpets.
    If none of them are "open", at least recommendations on which trumpets to avoid because they are more "stuffy" than the rest.

    Why are all the people who are responding to my question assuming that I am some moron who thinks that a change of trumpet will instantly add an octave to my range?
    I was asking for a more open feel and tone in the range I already have. I have already made the necessary adjustmemnts in embouchure and in mouthpiece. The better trumpet is the final piece.

    - morris
  10. Dave

    Dave Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2007

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