Is There a Universal Mouthpiece Placement

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Dr.Mark, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi Folks,
    I've come across an idea that as I observe I find more validity and reliability in it.
    Here's the hypothesis:
    The most optimal placement of a trumpet mouthpiece is to have the top and bottom portion of the mouthpiece touching the upper and lower divits. This keeps the mouthpiece out of the red and the vermilion border (the ridge that separates the lip from the face) possibliy serves as an anchor that keeps the mouthpiece stable. As for individual differences, that can be seen in jaw placement, dentures, and angle of the horn. However, the divits are touched by the mouthpiece and possibly the vermilion border helps anchor the mouthpiece so it doesn't slip around.
    -----
    I've looked at scads of pinterest images of famous trumpet players and other images on the internet and the hypothesis seems to hold (at least for the divits). Also, for many that I've spoken with on this site, when a person gets tired, one of the first things to give way is the lower lip which slips out of position. This is remedied by firming up the bottom lip by possibly curling slightly or whatever is needed to get the bottom lip back into position.
    Here's what I'm thinking. There may be a universal placement which involves placing the mouthpiece on the divits and the vermilion border helps anchor the lip against the mouthpiece.
    Here's the test:
    Please go to a mirror with your mouthpiece and watch yourself buzz (it will take less than a minute). If what I'm saying holds true enough times, then children starting out can be taught to place the mouthpiece on the upper and lower divits ( I don't mean curling the lip in so much that the red disappears) but slightly curling the bottom lip or simply tightening the lip so the mouthpiece touches both divits. I know it's easy to just report but please try it out with a mirror before posting your result.
    What does this possibly have a future effect on? Mouthpiece size. Possibly the distance between divits will be a fair measure of the mouthpiece size required.
    Thanks so much
    Dr.Mark
     
  2. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    What's a 'divit'?
     
  3. jimmyblue

    jimmyblue New Friend

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    [fubar]
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  4. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

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    On the lips.

    But like someone else said, what is a divit?

    I know I place mine as central as possible. I have a feel that the mouthpiece, hooks just under the red part of the bottom lip in that section that is kinda in from the lip (curved in and soft, spot where some people leave some hair on as a type of beared or whatever u call it)... maybe that is the divit you are talking about...

    Just know mines central, I always place the mouthpiece on an angle so the bottom of it first touched my face, then i raise the top part to conect to top lip, so basically I roll it on, first goes in that (divit?) spot, then rolls on from there. That way I always get it in the same spot. Most central spot I could work out and that's how I been playing.

    Wonder how one determines what mouthpiece size though. Feel wise, the "3C" size kinda feels like it doesn't fit right. The B2 Monette I used (1 1/4 equivalent) seems to feel more like my lips fit inside it. I like it, how does one decide what the 'ideal' size is, or there isn't one?
     
  5. edfitzvb

    edfitzvb Forte User

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    Could the OP have meant "divot"
     
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    I say you refer all your children patients to me, I sew a velcro strip to their upper and lower lips and design a fuzzy lined mouthpiece to sell to the patients. That'll keep the mouthpiece in place... Yeah, that's the ticket!
     
  7. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Seriously [if that is even possible with me] I really do think Dr.Mark is on to something. Anything that keeps excessive movement from occuring has got to make it easier on optimizing the muscles set point for the most efficient vibration. Hey, you gotta admit, the velcro thingy would do the trick too, but more naturally, perhaps the divots are mother natures velcro equivalent.
     
  8. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    hi sethoflagos,
    You asked:
    "Could the OP have meant "divot""
    ---
    Yes, thank you! I'm referring to the area between the nose and where the lip starts. From the middle of Cupid's Bow up to the nose. At the beginning of the lower lip and where the chin begin to bend outward (some people have a similar indented structure like the divot at Cupid's Bow in this area. It's the area where a guy will sometimes grow a little hair called (I think) an Imperial.
    Hope this helps
    Dr.Mark
     
  9. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    I think it's an interesting theory, but mouthpiece placement is such a personal thing that is based on comfort, which in turn is dictated by the underlying teeth, that it would be hard to say that there is a universal placement. Each player who becomes a solid, working player, "finds" their placement based on hours of work in the practice room, which ultimately is work toward refinement.

    I don't think it will have an effect on mouthpiece size - again, that's going to be dictated by the individuals physical makeup of lips and teeth. Besides which, where does this leave brass players who use larger mouthpieces, such as tuba players? ALL of that structure that you are talking about - lips, divots, the red, the vermillion border, etc, all winds up inside of the rim of the mouthpiece.
     
  10. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi Gman,
    You stated:
    "I say you refer all your children patients to me, I sew a velcro strip to their upper and lower lips and design a fuzzy lined mouthpiece to sell to the patients. That'll keep the mouthpiece in place... Yeah, that's the ticket!
    ---
    I agree!! Paging Dr. Moe, Dr, Curlie, Dr, Onady
    We have a space suit that needs a radical velcroectomy in room 7 which needs to then be attached to an 11 year old trumpet player's upper lip.
    Dr.Mark
     

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