issue since horn change

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by 70newport, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. the newbie

    the newbie Pianissimo User

    Jan 27, 2011
    San Francisco
    I have a ytr 6320s!!! My horn does the exact same thing, it accumulates lots or water. i thought it was just me!
  2. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    so -- does a bigger bore horn require you to "put more air" through it?? and if it does, wouldn't that mean bore size really does effect the amount of water accumulating in the horn -- either by pushing more volume of air into the thing, or by the horn "being a condenser" -- maybe heavier horns also "cool" the airstream down a little quicker do to their mass not being able to warm up quick enough --- I suppose that would cause more spit to accumulate quicker.
    just an idea -- since some people play 3 minutes, rest 3, etc. --- very interesting now that I think about it.
    (of course, I am still lazy, and sometimes put the "cotton cloth" in my spit valves in practice to "wick" away excess water -- that way I don't have to be bothered, or troubled to empty the spit so often -- -but that is me --- ROFL ROFL ROFL
  3. the newbie

    the newbie Pianissimo User

    Jan 27, 2011
    San Francisco
    Not sure, need a tech to answer these questions. I do notice that when I set my horn down after playing a while the lead pipe is noticeably warm, kinda feels hot, and a good part of the water comes out of the tuning slide predominantly.

    I wonder where in the instrument is the vibration supposed to occur (like the sound creation)? Mine is definatley in the leadpipe. which i reckon is why most water accumulates there? I dont think its right. My techique must be wrong? I think i'm more air and not enough lip/embouchere.

    I wonder should i look at getting a different trumpet? If i get one thats not as free flowing will it help my higher range? HHMMMmmm? Interesting.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Trumpets are already full of it - I mean air, so we don't have to "fill" them up. The way that they work also does not require us to blow "harder". A free blowing horn is so mostly because it is built in a way that we hear ourselves easily. The thinness of the bell material and bracing let the horn "leak" sound through the bell.

    The wick idea sounds functional, I am not sure that I would want to use it for myself. My trumpet builders and technicians go through great pains to make sure that everything is tight and know far more than I do. However, there is some band pass concepts used in subwoofers and practice mutes as well as bass reflex speakers. Maybe there is a way to keep the seal and still get rid of the water........................ Capillary action may also be a possibility.

    If I were to use cloth, it would be microfiber. It absorbs better than cotton and is denser (better seal). There are synthetic cloths for kitchen use too that may even be better as far as absorption and seal:
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  5. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

    Oct 19, 2008
    Flinders Vic Australia
    The Joy key works by capillary action, uses a sintered element to continuously drain the condensation.


    Designed primarily for french horn but no reason would not work on trumpet, will try one on my next frankenhorn.

    Regards, Stuart.
  6. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    I have a similar problem with my 1948 Holton model 47 .... and it has a reverse lead pipe. I have to empty it constantly. The horn has a reverse lead pipe. Does your Yamaha have one? I have no idea why or if that would make a difference. perhaps the bracing located further away from the tuning slide creates a more vibration .... maybe that loosens up the condensation. I have no idea ... Where's Ivan when you need him.
    I also just had my horn chem cleaned.
    There is also another posibility ... Red Rot would do this..yes?
  7. Pete

    Pete Piano User

    Nov 17, 2007
    I agree with the above info by Rowuk. Also, since it is a relatively old horn, there may be some corrosion or build up in the tuning slide that could possibly cause this. I own two reverse leadpipe Yamahas with the rubber water key set up. I don't have those issues at all. Soak the tuning slide for a while, 20 minutes or so, in warm water and dish detergent. Run the snake through it and try it.

  8. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    I have a variety of horns with differing bores and find that some retain moisture more than others. I keep all of them clean. If it really bothers you, take it back. I doubt bore size is a factor. My Martin Committee is smaller than my Ambassador, yet hardly accumulates condensation and the Ambassador is a factory.
  9. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Toby, in that varity, what is your subjective assessment as to which bore size produces the most? You know, we can make this more subjective. Here is my proposed experiment to anyone out the that wants to try this [Hint: Rowuk]

    Let each horn sit dry overnight. Take a 50 ml sip of water, then play each horn (50 ml sips before each horn) for 5 minutes each. Immediately empty all spit valves until absolutely drained onto a pre-weighed filter paper. Immediately weight the wet paper. Go to the next horn and repeat. At the end of the experimental phase... plot bore size against weight change of the paper (weight of spit produced). All other variables MUST remain constant (room temperature, room humidity... etc).

    Once the experiment is done, send me the results. I will help write the introduction, methods and results section. I will contract rowuk to write the discussion... WE ARE PUBLISHING THIS SUCKER!

    [Oh by the way, BigDub will be my co-editor to keep by spelling and grammer in line.]
  10. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    That sounds like work to me!! My experience is the Ambassador produces the most condensation of my trumpets. My flugel produces more condensation than my well!! My pocket trumpet also is a well of moisture. None of the rest of my horns produces enough to be of any concern. I do find that blowing harder regardless of horn produces more condensation across the board. So maybe the poster is blowing harder than before with this new horn.

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