Jason Harrelson explaining his SWE concepts...

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gbdeamer, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. Asher S

    Asher S Pianissimo User

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    Sep 20, 2009
    Suburban Boston
    OK then, in what way do the kits change the feel of the horn, and does that change have any impact on how you play? Again, I'm just curious, and not trying to play devil's advocate.
     
  2. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    They do exactly what Jason says, they reduce the unwanted sympathetic vibration of the
    valve cylinders and stems.

    I have not done with and without measurements on my Bravura, since it came with heavy caps. But I did do it on my Getzen that I modified. I did this using several techniques measuring solid tones and white noise with a microphone in the leadpipe using the horn as a microphone and also with the mic at a fixed distance from the bell.

    Using a minidisc recorder with a recording level meter I could see and record the difference in output levels as I added various pieces to my Getzen, including leadpipe sleeve, heavy caps, new braces and heavy tuning slide.

    If you add the proper material (something with an acoustic impedance as high or higher than brass) than you will indeed improve the efficiency, slotting, range and harmonics of just about any trumpet you would add these changes to.

    For example, I think my Getzen 300 was approximately 1.2 dB less efficient than my Bravura before mods and around .8 dB more efficient after the mods.

    So, yes, with some properly constructed tests you can measure the differences with and without heavy trim kits.

    Greg

    PS - To do this tests I constructed acoustic isolation "boxes" for the horn and mic so as only to measure the direct path and eliminate unwanted
    reception of reflected sound.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  3. Asher S

    Asher S Pianissimo User

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    Sep 20, 2009
    Suburban Boston
    Thanks Greg.

    Did the modification-induced improvement persist over several months?

    I guess ultimately it's just another personal choice. Personally I like the way my trumpet plays, which is why I chose it over the 4-5 other horns that I tried in the shop. I think a trim kit would either (a) make no significant difference, or (b) swap one playing configuration for another different configuration that I may or may not prefer.

    I must admit that I cringed a bit at the end of Mr. Harrelson's video. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the way to become a better player is to practice consistently and persistently with one horn & one mouthpiece, rather than by acquiring a new mouthpiece and/or trim kit...
     
  4. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

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    Aug 14, 2010
    Jazz Town, USA
    Another thing worth discussing is the fact that one of these trim kits will make your trumpet much heavier. I have the light (3/8's bottom caps) trim kit. It made my horn MUCH heavier in total feel (shoulder muscles), even though the kit is the lightest one offered.

    If you want a light weight (non-fatiguing) feel, this is not for you!

    Note: I have sent the copper kit back and will replace it with a gold plated version due to my skin reacting with the copper. The copper is cosmetically very attractive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  5. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Rochester, MN
    Yes.

    My mods are based on physics. I designed my tests to objectively prove that the mods produced in reality what the theory said they would.

    Just for fun, I pulled my Bravura out the other day and played it back and forth against my Getzen. The differences were pretty much as I remembered them when I completed my testing back in June.

    So, for now I am very pleased with how the Getzen plays, even though its one ugly looking horn by most people's standards.

    Greg
     
  6. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Rochester, MN
    Exactly why I built the Getzen. Holding the Bravura up for long gigs, like with our rock band that plays from 9-1 and your are standing the whole time, well, it hurts the shoulders too much.

    The Getzen was my first attempt at using synthetic material in place of brass in the leadpipe sleeve, bracing, caps and tuning slide.

    It worked exactly as I expected it to. I am currently theorizing ways to build another one without so much labor involved.

    If I can get labor costs way down, or perhaps contract a builder to build them I may market them.

    Greg
     
  7. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

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    Jazz Town, USA
    Best of luck to you. Another example of American ingenuity unleashed in a free market!
     
  8. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Thanks. I would really like to spend more time designing
    and selling horns instead of writing software
    for a living.
     
  9. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    Jason talks about how the slide is milled from a solid piece instead of bending the tube. How does he get the drill to go around a corner?
     
  10. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Rochester, MN
    He has a newer cnc that cuts each half of the slide.
    I assume that he cuts the inside first and then
    flips over the brass plate to cut the outer side.

    I have not seen it in person.
     

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