jaw movement and lip trills across partials

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by coolerdave, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    I have been working on my lip trills across partial ... (ie second line G - 3rd space C). I have heard players do these very fast and almost effortlessly.
    I know that tongue placement is very important in trying to get these to move quick, I can only play them quick if my jaw moves along with my tongue.,, I am trying to minimize that but should my jaw move during this? If I move just my tongue and not jaw there isn't enough change to jump the partial.

    when perform a trill from 5 line F to the G just above it do you consciously try to lip trill it a bit as the note wants to fall down the half step.
  2. Chuck Cox

    Chuck Cox Forte User

    Oct 3, 2008
    Cary NC
    I don't lip regular trills, like in trumpet voluntary or something. Good luck with getting fast lip trills on a second line G. That one is hard. Above the staff is easier starting at A to C# or B to D# is easiest to me.
  3. flugelgirl

    flugelgirl Forte User

    Jan 20, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    Usually problems with flexibility are related to air flow. Make sure you are taking a full breath, and focus your airstream - imagine pushing your air forward, giving the line you are playing direction all the way to the end. Once your air is working right your face will start to take care of itself, and you'll feel like your adjustments are much smaller. Hope that helps!
  4. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    It makes sense. I was playing with the airstream .. the thought being if the placement was off then the tongue has less affect. I just wasn't sure if it was that my tongue wasn't moving enough and then I was compensating by moving my jaw. I know when it's right the notes just flip right across the partial.
    second question... when you trill from the 5th line F to the G above the staff do you consciously move the tongue as it is a lip trill so it doesn't drop down to the 4th space E?
  5. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    To expand on flugelgirl's comment: When we play a note, the air column inside the instrument has defined and mathematically predictable areas of high pressure and no pressure. In physics these are known as nodes and anti-nodes. The higher the tone, the more of these nodes inside the instrument. With a horn of sufficient light weight, we can play a long tone we can gently run a finger around the leadpipe and/or bell and feel some of the vibrations. Change to a different harmonic and that place will move.

    Now for the esoteric part. Playing a long tone, we can shift our awareness to inside the trumpet, and imagine/feel a point of resistance somewhere inside the horn. I call these "magic bubbles." To slur up, we can "blow" this magic bubble further away, backing off will allow the magic bubble to return to its place closer to the mouthpiece.

    Our body will memorize the feel of these notes and nodes much more quiclky than the cognitive control of several variables can. Remember that the embouchure and jaw formation is (or should be, in the Zen Vulgano philosophy)formed in part by the note that it is playing.

    Experiment a bit, and have fun!
  6. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    my current lip slur routine is to start at low F# ( slur up on the same valve combo) do the 1/4, triplet 8th, 16th, etc ... rest and then go up in half steps.
    Today I just added 16th note minor 1/3's starting on low F# and then I go up as high as I can.... by this time my chops are really feeling it..
    the major 1/3's .. same drill
    then 2nd's...
    by the time I am done with this my chops are jello ... but what a rush ... serious workout
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I use Taaheeaaeeaaeeaaee for slurred trills. There was no need to mess with my face geometry. I started softly to hear my body talking to me, found a certain degree of "blowing" that let me float the notes, and then spent a couple of months working up from a mordent, to a couple of repeated notes to extended trills. Most of this integration work was on the natural trumpet not a standard Bb or C. The lessons larned were transferable.
  8. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    When I do that Ta ee ah ee .. my jaw moves ... so I was trying to find out if that was "cheating"
    I messed with the Bubble picture today during some of the jazz transcriptions I was doing and really liked that. I think Flugelgirl had a really good point ... I believe that when I was younger and playing alot the breathing part became second nature so I didn't have to think much about it but since I am in the 7th month of my comeback I need to be mindful of some of the basic fundamentals.
    Everytime you mention that natural horn it makes me think how hard that could be...
    thanks for the help

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