Jens Trumpet Rant (copy of)

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Tootsall, Dec 28, 2004.

  1. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    4,529
    8
    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    "No sugar" is for hot chocolate.

    Besides...my "real" job is plant/project engineer at a sugar factory! :D True. :lol:
     
  2. Robert Rowe

    Robert Rowe Mezzo Piano User

    512
    3
    Dec 24, 2004
    ... amazing !
    Don't hate me, but there is/are probably less than 5 lbs of sugar used in my household annually -- and only for my wife when she bakes .

    By-the-way ... you don't wear Levis and white sneakers, do you ?

    Robert
     
  3. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    4,529
    8
    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Nope. Generic "jeans" and either "Sorels" in winter or sandals in summer. Steel-toed shoes at work and hiking runners the rest of the time.

    Sorels? Those big, white "Arctic" boots with 1/2" of felt linings. Winter has finally arrived, it's -30C out there this morning.
     
  4. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    5,915
    10
    Sep 29, 2004
    USA
    JP,

    If you want to talk about Communism in only the economic sense then fine, it has changed somewhat in China and Vietnam. If you want to talk about it in a wider political sense you have to admit that the repression is only slightly better than it once was. I would imagine that for the people that are still rotting in Chinese, Vietnamese, and Cuban jails and "re-education" camps for holding vociferous anti-communist beliefs, they probably couldn't care less about the economic status of communism. I would imagine that the women that endured forced abortions in China couldn't care less about its newly-found economic global position.

    There was a book written by a fellow named Armando Valladares about the life he lived in Castro's prison's because of guilt by association. It is a horrendous account of the lives of political prisoners in Cuba. It came out in the '80s and really opened my eyes. The name of the book is "Beyond All Hope". You mentioned that Cuba is a big topic with you so, you've probably read it, I guess.

    Some people feel the communist experiment has ever been given a fair shot to work. I believe it has and the collapse of the Soviet Union and the change in the economic path China and Vietnam are proof it could not hold. Other nations didn't want to play ball with them. Well, sorry. That's the way it goes. In life we choose who we want to deal with. Just because we haven't dealt with most communist countries hasn't stopped Canada or Great Britain and many other countries from doing so but they still failed.

    ML
     
  5. jpkaminga

    jpkaminga Pianissimo User

    119
    0
    Jul 1, 2004
    Boston
    Manny,

    Mao, Stalin and many of their successors were just as bad if not worse than Hitler, Cuba, as far as I know, never reached such disastrous proportions, but I'm no expert, very interested to the point that Cuba is a subject I find time to read about. nope, I haven't read "Beyond all Hope", and I'm glad you've recommended it, it's only recently that I've become interested in Cuba and I have read of the forced "re-education" that went on, though one must admit that after any revolution there will be this sort of thing and if not "re-education" then systematic exile or execution, it is impossible to justify these practices in term that would be acceptable to all but history has shown that when there's a small population that has alot and a large population with very little the only path for a swift redistribution is violent, I personally think that communism has been stigmatized unfairly since it first surfaced, this makes sense because it's concepts emerged during a long period of compromised revolutions in Europe, and the people in power had a lot of reasons (or maybe just one, capital) for their own counter revoultions, overall though we seem to live in a most compassionate and thoughtful age no matter the geography, and we can thank the liberal revolutions of the 18th and 19th centuries for that

    I thank you for telling me about this book, I'll be going to the library soon to look it up, Cuba seems to be very different from any other communist country though, the average person in Cuba did benefit from the revolution, medicine has been a problem in cuba that's because the US won't trade with them education is not a problem, Cuba has so many doctors that tens of thousands of them are working across the third world, the literacy rate there is better than in the U.S. Of course there were counter revolutionaries who paid their price whether it was fair or not, every human action must be respected at least for its will, in general though there were alot of rich landed Cubans who suffered at the hands of the revolution, the reasons the average Cuban did benefit from the revolution probably have to do with the fact that Cuba is a very small economy in comparison with China and Russia, I am no professional political economist though, merely a college student who became inspired by Marx, I will certainly get back to you when I find that book though.

    JPK
     
  6. jpkaminga

    jpkaminga Pianissimo User

    119
    0
    Jul 1, 2004
    Boston
    the book is called "Against All Hope", I did think "beyond" was almost too harsh, just thought I'd clear that up for anyone else interested in Cuba, it was easy enough to find with just the author's name though,
     
  7. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    5,915
    10
    Sep 29, 2004
    USA
    Hey JPK,

    What do you think should we ask the powers that be to split this up and move it to the lounge? At least there we can sit in more comfortable chairs and order something to drink.

    Until they do, here's what I think:

    Essentially, we as a nation ready to be born made a chioce to leave a monarchy (weak as it was... parliament was the real power by that time in England) and create a representative republic long ago. We did so because of the subjugation and lack of representation we were enduring. The Russians could have made the same choice but didn't. They went with a system made up by a guy who never held a real job in his life. Okay, fine, he was a newspaper editor for a short while but that was pretty much it.

    That system ran counter to human nature: to achieve and be compensated fairly for it. The leaders of that new system found as time went on the only way to get people to totally buy into that way was through a new method of persecution and subjugation.

    The education argument is an old one and I still don't buy it. It's easy to get kids to excel when they aren't given any option but to succeed. They sure aren't given any option when it comes to joining the military, it's mandatory.

    Bottom line" Communism will never work on a planet where there are countries that offer another option where there is so much more choice in how to live ones life. That's why you had the Berlin Wall, the 50 mile stretch between Cuba and Miami, and other such barrers between oppression and freedom.

    At the end of the Second World War we just wanted to be done with it and go home. Stalin wanted territory and got it. THAT'S why we continued to develop nukes, unfortunately. And so, the race began.

    Shoot, I gotta go... would you have the waitress bring us some nachos? I'm hungry now, too.

    Great place, this TM...

    ML
     
  8. jpkaminga

    jpkaminga Pianissimo User

    119
    0
    Jul 1, 2004
    Boston
    Manny,

    we probably should have our own post if we continue to go on about political economy in general like this.

    As for Marx never having a real job, well do you consider college professors to have real jobs, what do they do but write and talk, I know that Marx never held a paying job but his whole philosophy was against wage labor (some prefer wage slavery), he was prolific in his own work, the man wrote like few others do, he never stopped working, he could have held a position in a university if he believed in the stuff that was being taught there, he would have no problem holding a job at a university in Europe today, the US is another question, major institutions in the US rarely teach courses that focus on Marx, in Europe he is widely studied, what can I do but quote Marx again "the ruling ideas of a time are the ideas of the ruling class", thus the US doesn't teach Marx, I don't want to get to controversial here, but class struggle exists everywhere, even in developed countries where it is less apparent, just because a country has a capitalist economy and democratic politics it doesn't mean their citizens necessarily have a wide array of choices before them, and often there seems to be only one practical choice, what will keep you comfortable, and that is most often good wages, not an interesting job or proximity to friends and family,

    as for human nature, well I'd like to believe that human nature is not static, and that some of the instincts of our caveman ancestors are less powerful since the advent of civilization, we are animals but aren't we the best ones, the ones who cooperate like no others, sometimes it is beneficial to disregard competition and work toward a common goal, the history of the US and its competitive capitalist atmosphere is one of great success but it is also a relatively short history

    so very many countries have mandatory military service, not just underdeveloped totalitarian regimes

    it is pretty much impossible to defend any communist regimes that have existed in history, all of them most definitely strayed from Marx at some point, in his own time Marx said "I'm glad I'm not a Marxist", his ideas are so new and revolutionary that often people can't take them far enough and revert to old systems or corrupt them from the beginning out of misunderstandings

    The reason why the Berlin wall happened was because nobody wanted to live in a country were everything was standardized to the point that you were sent to prison for not being standard, Marx never does not write about a totality, he never said that food had to suck and everbody had to think the same way, he wasn't even critical of religion in the way that most people make him out to be, he was fine with relilgion, what he was against were the conditions that produced religion, when did the rise of Christianity occur, not during the Roman's times, it spread across Europe once things got really bad and people were dying all over the place because of plague and invasion.

    about education, the fact remains that Cuba has the best public education system in Central and South America, why is it that other countries with much larger GDPs can't keep their populations literate?

    I can't tell if I'm tired of this and wonder if I should call for a cease fire because the issues at stake her are so huge and old that the argument could go on forever, I bet there are plenty of forums for political discussion, not that I'm against it in a trumpet forum, its just that I feel like this is a stalemate that happens all the time and we might not need to prolong it, but then again replies are welcome

    jpk
     
  9. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    5,915
    10
    Sep 29, 2004
    USA
    JPK,

    Well, fine... I'll end the ripostes if you make me one promise:

    If we ever meet we'll get a beer and nachos and continue exchanging thoughts. I enjoyed it and it always drives me to keep doing more reading on a variety of subjects, not just politics.

    Deal?

    ML
     
  10. jpkaminga

    jpkaminga Pianissimo User

    119
    0
    Jul 1, 2004
    Boston
    Manny,
    It surely is a deal. Nachos, beer, and politics what a great idea, it might get more people concerned about politics if there's nachos and beer along with it. It was very fun, I just hope the original subject of the post wasn't completely derailed.
    Yours Truly
    JPK
     

Share This Page