Jens' Yamaha trumpet rant

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpetjens, Nov 25, 2007.

  1. Richard Oliver

    Richard Oliver Forte User

    Jul 18, 2006
    Casper, WY
    Does the smaller and efficient hold true with orchestral players? Or are they the larger and efficient gang?

    PS Whomping great thread. Thanks Jens, Robin, and all!
  2. MrClean

    MrClean Piano User

    Oct 22, 2005
    As Jens pointed out, John Hagstrom has made it work for himself. However, for the most part in the US, (at least from my perspective), orchestral players are still using larger mouthpieces to achieve what we see as an ideal orchestral sound. Are we all just lemmings following each other over the cliff? Perhaps, though I would be a bit reluctant to lead the "new charge". There is a certain expectation from colleagues and conductors alike, of a sound that fits within certain parameters. Deviating from that would draw raised eyebrows, at the least.

    You can indeed get great results from smaller pieces, and if I did the type of playing that Jens and others like him (actually, is there anyone quite like Jens?) did, then yes, it would be stupid to beat my head against my 1C trying to make it work. He is a brilliant player, and he is absolutely using the right equipment for what he does. As an orchestral musician (in the US), I choose the equipment that gives me the results for which I am looking. Different jobs, different tools.

    I keep qualifying my remarks with "in the US". It is my understanding that British players, for instance, prefer the larger Bb trumpet with a smaller mouthpiece (perhaps the equivalent of a Bach 3C) to achieve their ideal sound concept. Perhaps I'm ill-informed, or maybe that isn't the case anymore. In any event, there is a certain "when in Rome" mentality at play here. It also shows there are numerous ways to skin the proverbial cat (no offense to you feline-fanciers out there).

    Having said that, I must add this conversation has gotten me to think about how I go about my business, particularly the Jim Manley clip. He certainly makes a helluva case for how he uses his air! Easy is always good, provided you get what you need out of the business end of the trumpet. Old habits die hard, though. ;-)
  3. administrator

    administrator Administrator Staff Member

    Jun 27, 2006
  4. Dave Mickley

    Dave Mickley Forte User

    Nov 11, 2005
    WOW - I definately have something to work on now. Everyone has always said "open your throat" but no one told me how until now. Thank you administrator for posting that. Dave
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Smaller and efficient can be for anyone that practices enough. The trick is that when the length of the vibrating part of the lip becomes smaller, the lip has to move back and forth greater distances to get the same amount of "power" output from the motor. That takes more control and flexibility than the casual player can provide. Whether or not at the end our playing becomes truly more efficient depends on other factors.
    Efficiency is measured power in to power out. If the trumpet and output are exactly the same, what gets pumped into the front end must be similar. This makes me believe that John Hagstrom is not more "efficient" than his big mouthpieced colleagues. He is simply using a smaller mouthpiece and getting away with it. The situation for a travelling soloist or brass quintet is different however. There we can afford to deviate from the norm.

    So many players have used MONSTER mouthpieces for symphony work for so many years and have even been able to retire late! That makes me think that there is some substantial margin for error here.

    What impresses me most is Jens' rant about the meatheads. There is universal acceptance for that concept!

    The preference in tone is indeed "national" as comparing any recordings will bear out.
  6. Richard Oliver

    Richard Oliver Forte User

    Jul 18, 2006
    Casper, WY
  7. stchasking

    stchasking Forte User

    Jun 11, 2006
    If any of you can't find a trumpet player to teach you breathing like Jim Manly go to your closest University and find the teacher for vocal music. Classical singers have been using this type of breathing since the Italians invented Bel Canto opera. Maynard Ferguson calls this Three point breathing. So do the yoga instructors.

    My mother taught her students this method since I was a child and I am sure it is a fixture in classical vocal music instruction. Take your horn with you.
  8. chrisvenditti

    chrisvenditti New Friend

    Aug 17, 2005
    Trumpet players would do well to stop listening to other trumpet players talk about breathing and find a good Alexander Technique teacher.
  9. confuoco

    confuoco Pianissimo User

    Nov 11, 2007
    I wonder how Arnold Jacobs would have weighed in on this.
  10. brunets

    brunets Pianissimo User

    May 28, 2007
    How about "breathing is part of the technique needed in playing the trumpet" ? ;-)

    My 2 canadian cents,


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