Kanstul 1525 and mouthpiece recommendation

Discussion in 'Horns' started by SteveRicks, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. ChopsGone

    ChopsGone Forte User

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    Now, wait a minute. Exactly which Bach 3C and/or 3CFL are you talking about here? Bach has been notoriously inconsistent over the years. If you do a little comparing, you'll find out that Curry rims are modeled after Mt. Vernon Bachs - for whatever reason, sort of an exalted era in Bach mouthpiece production. But the Curry mouthpieces are very consistent, very comfortable, very reasonably priced, and beautifully finished. The Bach flugelhorn mouthpieces - and, yes, I do have three of the stinkers in my posession - are prime examples of flugelhorn mouthpieces made by a company which has absolutely never made a flugelhorn worth having.

    If the OP is really married to the 3 rim, he may find that the Curry line requires dropping down a couple of sizes or so to get the same feel, but that's all based on just which Bach 3C he's playing now. As far as the 3CFL being the logical place to start, my offer still stands if the OP's interested in it. I notice that you play a 3CFL yourself, presumably on that Getzen 896. More power to you. That's probably a pretty decent match. For a ZKF-1525, which I also happen to play, I wouldn't touch that Bach mouthpiece on a bet.

    (Just for the record, I'm a flugelhorn freak - currently own 18 of the things although I have to count Kuhlohorns, Eb soprano flugelhorn, and slide flugelhorn to reach that count. Two of them are Getzens, one of which is an 896. It desperately needs to be restored, but would cost more than the horn could ever be worth to have the work done, so it sits here waiting for its chance to be tossed in as an extra in a multi-horn swap some time. I don't like the horn well enough to spend any money on it. Sorry. Nothing against Getzen, but we were talking about a Kanstul ZKF-1525 here, and that's one of my top two flugelhorns and one I've spent plenty of time with. I know a guy who plays one with a Benge 5CFL. I just don't care for the tonal quality with that, or with the Bach 3CFL - I've tried it, and hated it.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  2. nieuwguyski

    nieuwguyski Forte User

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    I played a Bach Strad 183 flugel for almost 20 years. It was a fine horn with excellent intonation and a good upper register (if playing high on flugel is your thing). The sound was pretty bright, even with the Bach no-letter flugel pieces (1FL and 3FL) that were all I was familiar with back in college. Eventually I discovered the Wick mouthpieces and used a 4F to get a sound I was pretty happy with. Eventually I got caught up in pursuing the super-dark flugel sound and ended up replacing the Bach with a copper Calicchio. Now I regret selling the Bach. The Calicchio is great for small-group playing, but the sound is so diffuse it just disappears in a big band setting.
     
  3. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

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    Hey ChopsGone. We're talking about 2 different things. While I appreciate your enthusiasm, calling the 3CFL a worthless piece of junk is just not true, and not very constructive.

    Mike
     
  4. ChopsGone

    ChopsGone Forte User

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    I made it clear that it's worthless to me - if the OP wants it, he can have it free of charge. How is that not helpful, even though I certainly advise against using that mouthpiece? It's a personal opinion, of course, but based on having played flugelhorns since about 1957. I just don't like that mouthpiece for that horn, and don't care much for it for any other horn. There are far too many higher quality flugelhorn mouthpieces on the market for anyone to settle for a Bach - Curry, Flip Oakes, GR, Monette, Warburton, Wick, Reeves, Kanstul - it's hard to go too far wrong with any of those. (Yes, I do own flugelhorn mouthpieces made by all of those I mentioned.)
     
  5. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

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    I think we're going to agree to disagree on this one. That's fine. No worries.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    The writer of the guide is way off, and likely never played the 4 valve version. First of all, check Freddie Hubbard's list of horns, the Getzen 4 valve flugelhorn was one of his routinely used horns. The last time I checked, I believe Freddie Hubbard was considered a professional. Before moving on to Marcinkiewicz, Rick Braun also promoted the Getzen flugelhorn. I believe he too is considered a professional. These facts are not consistent with"The Flugelhorn Guide", and suggests the writer of that article did not research very well their topic, or is highly biased.

    Then there is cyber_shake's personal review printed here on TM related to catching my gig at the Blue Wisp earlier this year. He states: "The G-man played a great gig. During the 2nd set he was featured on Stella By Starlight, which I have to say was the absolute best version I've ever heard. Honestly, it was a magical musical moment and Gary played it flawlessly on his 4-valve Getzen flugel with such style and fabulous tone. I wished I had recorded it ..." Here is a reference to the post #27 so you can see it in full context: http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f140/more-olds-inquiries-bit-getzen-curiosity-61823-3.html

    I personally have never had intonation problems playing the Getzen 4 valve. I did note the intonation was not as crisp on the 3-valve Kanstul 1525 as it is with my Getzen, but I do have to say that when playing below low D, the Kanstul wins you over with the lush tone, similar to that of a french horn.

    So from my personal experience and supported by our TM member cyber_shake, I would like to go on record that "The Flugelhorn Guide" misspeaks the truth on the Getzen Flugelhorn.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2011
  7. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Here is the discussion Getzen includes with their 4-valve horn: ...the only other way [versus 1st or 3rd valve trigger] to provide assistance to the traditional intonation problems (low D, C sharp, G and F sharp) is to provide a 4th valve with slightly longer tubing than first and third combined. The 4th valve alone may be substituted for any 1-3 combination and 2-4 may be substituted for 1-2-3. The 4th valve also serves to extend the range, connecting the bottom of the normal range to pedal tone register.

    It is this last sentence that to me provides the MOST value to the 4th valve. Extended range fingerings are for all notes below staff: F = 1-4; E = 1-2-4; Eb = 2-3-4; D = 1-2-4; Db = 1-2-3-4 In other words, the same fingering as the usual note with the 4th valve included. The bridging is in amazing tune and slots effortlessly. I play in this range a lot for background arrangements when I write/arrange tunes with the Tenor sax playing the lead lines.
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    For the record, I am stronly considering buying the 4-valve Kanstul 1526, and found a trumpet vendor in Cincinnati that sels them WAY under the list price! If I just didn't recently by my Martin Committee, I really would believe I would have given myself the Kanstul flugelhorn for a Christmas present! Did I mention, those low tones really win you over!
     
  9. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Oh, by the way, my Getzen 3C worked GREAT on the Kanstul 1525.
     
  10. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

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    Correction: This was actually taken from the website - The Trumpet Gearhead, by James Donaldson. It is a widely referenced source of info on trumpets and related issues.
     

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