Kanstul Quality .... hmmm ....

Discussion in 'Horns' started by MUSICandCHARACTER, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. MUSICandCHARACTER

    MUSICandCHARACTER Forte User

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    Jan 31, 2004
    Newburgh, Indiana
    Time for a new thread. The last thread on payment plans sure broke down.

    Post this on the Kanstul board. Get Jack to say definitively. I doubt his father would be happy to hear that ANY of the product he makes are inferior to anything. The Kanstul lines are different in specs in some models from the "other lines" made in the Kanstul factory. I doubt the quality is any different.

    M&C
     
  2. Ash

    Ash Pianissimo User

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    Jan 18, 2004
    He might be referring to the Signature line versus other horns. I would imagine that the truly high-end horns would have extensive quality control testing that budget models (i.e. Zeus) doesn't have.
     
  3. Zachary Music

    Zachary Music New Friend

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    Nov 10, 2003
    Ash,

    The Guarnerius trumpets, cornets, flugels and trombones and the Olymupus trumpets are not "budget" horns. They are world class professional instruments. They are purchased by some of the best players who buy them from either me or from ZeuS dealers.

    I do have budget trumpets and they are not made by Kanstul. They sell for $375 and are great for beginning students.

    Alex
     
  4. Ash

    Ash Pianissimo User

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    Jan 18, 2004
    I didn't mean low quality, I mean low price. I'm sure the Zeus G/O has great quality, but they are significantly cheaper than, say, the Kanstul WB (for better or worse). I definitley couldn't afford one of those, so the Zeus's are the best category of horn (cost/quality wise) for me. I'd assume that the extra cost reflects closer attention by the manufacturers. I don't know what arrangement you have with kanstul, so I can only speculate on the price differences.
     
  5. MUSICandCHARACTER

    MUSICandCHARACTER Forte User

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    Jan 31, 2004
    Newburgh, Indiana
    Price and quality sometimes correlate, but sometimes not very highly. I remember a story about a premium ice cream maker (premium today anyway). He sold his ice cream which was a good ice cream, but it did not sell well at a low price. He called the SAME ice cream a premium ice cream and tripled the price. BAM, lots of sales.

    Moral of the story, quality and price don't always correlate. Sometimes, it is harder to manufacture a different product. More of something. Doesn't always make the product better, just different. Trumpets are a great thing -- once you get to a certain level there are lots choices.

    Why is ZeuS line a bit less expensive than some? Mr. Zachary's commitment to it is one reason. In the case of the Olympus, it was carefully designed to be a horn with minimums. Minimum bracing, etc. -- even water keys. The purpose is to create a sound that many trumpet players will like. Will some like a Kanstul Signature line? Of course! But because the ZeuS may sell for a bit less does not mean that Mr. Kanstul is making "cheaper" or "inferior" products for Mr. Zachary. Just different.

    Correlation is a great subject. Price and quality have some correlation, but not always a high one. And with something as subjective as a quality of a trumpet -- well, subjectivity makes it less reliable. Take a $5000 Monette -- is there a quality 3X that of a Kanstul? Some would say yes. I know what my answer would be :roll:


    M&C
     
  6. Ash

    Ash Pianissimo User

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    Jan 18, 2004
    Very true, M&C. I meant that, albeit in less articulate ways.
     
  7. TangneyK

    TangneyK Pianissimo User

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    Nov 10, 2003
    Phoenix, AZ
    Who are "some of the best players"?

    And why, if they are "not 'budget' horns", do you advertise as being a less expensive alternative to other horns?

    I would love to try a Zues one day to see if EVERYTHING you say about them is true. If so, I might even retire my trusty, beautiful sounding/playing Bach.

    Any chance you could send one out here to Bamberg, Germany?

    --Kevin
     
  8. Zachary Music

    Zachary Music New Friend

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    Nov 10, 2003
    Some of the most important models that Kanstul has made and are known for have been OEM horns. So this whole topic is absolutely silly. Everything they make is top quality except that it differs in specifications. This is where the player comes in and decides which horn with what specifications is the right one for them. There is no quality difference, as some would want people to believe. Its human nature, we all want to sell our own horns of course.

    If you are expecting to see Herseth, Smith, or Winton play ZeuS then that will not happen. I am not even sure if I am interested. Those guys go where the big money is. Yamaha usually goes after them and helps pay their mortgage. I am contacted by some of the best players all the time. Many of the current ZeuS dealers are top players in their State. Stephen in Australia is one of the top cornet players. Pro players in Europe also contact me all the time. There are also a lot of important players who don’t yet own a ZeuS but know about it, have played it and are very impressed. If you read the Testimonial pages, I just post it the way I get it.

    We have an appointment set up with Fred Mills who heard of the magnificent ZeuS C trumpets. Tomorrow I am sending a horn to one of the best players in MN who plays with the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra. He just got rid of his Monette and wants a Guarnerius. One of the best players in Alabama, after visiting a ZeuS dealer has just sold all his horns on ebay and will be ordering his set of 3 Zeus horns to become a dealer. There are too many hot players all over who may not be world famous but are great players.
    If things work out I am also in the process of setting up a couple of ZeuS dealers in Germany. So I am quite happy with all this development.
    I have a dealer in Belgium with who you can set up demo session if you want to travel there to see him.

    Alex
     
  9. TangneyK

    TangneyK Pianissimo User

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    Nov 10, 2003
    Phoenix, AZ
    Are you implying that other horn makers are "out to get you"?

    So am I to believe that these great and respected players are not playing the magnificent Zues trumpets because you won't pay them enough to? Or are you only implying that those guys are sellouts?

    Also, it's interesting to me that a lot of the people that PLAY Zueseses also SELL them.

    --Kevin
     
  10. Zachary Music

    Zachary Music New Friend

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    Nov 10, 2003
    No, you misunderstood me. I was not implying that at all. Although if I was any other horn maker I would be out to get ZeuS and try to make it go away. Its a very exciting and highly marketable product line and it does threaten many other marketers who have a much harder time selling their horns. It always has threatened others and that's the way I like it. It means I am doing my job well.

    Some are and some are not. If they have a big name its only common sense to profit from it. They need to make a living like everyone else and unlike most people they need to do it from music alone, which is tough. Who would be foolish to turn down a good endorsement contract with a major company with a lot of money behind them. The manufacturer also profits from associating their product with the name of the player. This adds legitimacy to their product.

    I am particularly proud of this. They are customers first and then indicate they want to be dealers. This is because they really believe in the product. Most who play ZeuS are not dealers. Otherwise I would have more dealers than any other company. Not everyone can make it as a dealer. You need to be knowledgeable, hard worker and have the personality for business. Its a talent all on its own and its not for everyone.

    Alex
     

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