Large Bore Trumpets - Not Suitable for Newbies or Average Joes?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by zorrosg, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. zorrosg

    zorrosg Pianissimo User

    Jan 30, 2011
    Currently I am a beginner using a Yamaha YTR2335 which has an ML bore of 0.459" according to the specs. I came across a large bore trumpet, a Jupiter XO1604S that I am kind of interested in buying, but this is the large bore model, bore size 0.462".

    According to my Rough Guide to Trumpet booklet, it says :
    "In order to play a trumpet with a large bore, you need a good embrochure and good breath control. If you are just beginning, you're usually best off with a medium-sized bore, about 0.455"

    Reading the above gives me the idea that the large bore trumpet, like the Jupiter I am considering buying is only suitable for accomplished or advanced players, and therefore it would be inadvisable for a newbie like me to buy such a trumpet. Would this be a correct concluscion?

    Second question is, what can one expect, in terms of playing demands, moving from the ML bore to the L bore. Will we need a lot more air and lung and lip power, or is the difference not that great?

    Also any comments on the Jupiter XO1604S specifically as a good/bad quality trumpet would be welcomed, for those who own it, or have had the chance to play it. Thanks everybody for your advice in this matter.
  2. mimic

    mimic Pianissimo User

    May 3, 2009
    I have played ML bore horns all of my life. Recently I got a Lawler L step bore horn. Other than the step bore having a bit of getting used to I couldn't tell that big of a difference between the ML and L bores. Air flow seems to be similar, with a bit more open blow in the high register with the L bore. I do notice I tire a little sooner with the L bore, but it's a minor amount of time. I'm not a pro, just a comeback player who sits in with a community band at times and does church work.
  3. mrsemman

    mrsemman Piano User

    Apr 8, 2010
    Large bore, medium bore...Trumpets are a personal choice. Bore sizes are a personal choice. I have both, and have two different sounds coming from two different horns. It doesn't mean that one horn is better than the other or vice versa. I use the same embrochure for both. While I initially found that I needed more air with the large bore, I don't feel it now.

    Beginners have enough problems to work out without adding more confusion to the mix.
  4. supposeda3

    supposeda3 Piano User

    Jan 3, 2009
    Central PA
    Take the time to try out every single horn you can possibly get ahold of before buying one. Dont rule any horns out, until you discover a reason to rule it out. Find what works for you.

    Just because the jupiter 1604 is large bore doesnt mean you "cant" play it. Give one a try, and see what you think of it. And for what its worth, my main horn is a 1604, and I LOVE IT! Its a very high quality horn.
  5. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    Throw out that Rough guide. It is too rough.

    Bore size is only one of many parameters in the list of trumpet specifications. You will probably not experience a detectable difference in blow between your Yammie and the Jupiter. The only way to tell is to play it, and forget about the specs. If you like it, buy it. They are decent horns.

    Unless there is some specific thing about your current horn you don't like, your best bet is to keep playing it until your have improved to the point where it is impeding your progress - several years, if you are a true beginner.

    If your horn has issues, you could get it fixed for not much, they are common and parts are inexpensive. If you WANT another horn, your should find a store with many horns and try them all to find one you like.
    Vulgano Brother likes this.
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I think beginners need a horn that matches the need of beginners. Medium blow, medium resistance. AFTER developing a decent sound and a couple of octaves of range, then a different horn can serve as a factor for additional motivation.

    The bore is no measure. A horn that is too free blowing may be a bad choice as no phrasing is possible. A horn with a bit of resistance could cause the player to choke off.

    I normally go to the music store with my students and have them play to me. Normally the right horn jumps out at us and screams "BUY ME!". I suggest this method to you. Take a second pair of ears to the music store and then trust them!
  7. EricMGB1974

    EricMGB1974 Pianissimo User

    Nov 12, 2009
    Elmira, NY
    As others have said, try any horn out & see how it plays for you rather than just reviewing the specs. Bore alone does not make any instrument a professional or beginner's horn. The Conn Director cornet had a bore of .484 and it was the quintessential student cornet for a generation after it's introduction in the early 1950's.
  8. trumpettrax

    trumpettrax Piano User

    Mar 18, 2006
    When I first started playing the trumpet I took lessons at Ball State University from a doctoral student and his teacher. Both played in the Municie Symphony and both told me that the standard (at the time) was a Bach Strad 37 ML. Then they had a large bore C trumpet. My point is that professional use the ML and don't necessarily have to go to the large bore. I think it depends on the job, the sound etc.

    Just my thoughts.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  9. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

    Nov 16, 2009
    Near Portland, OR.
    I'm looking at your numbers and can't help to be a little skeptical.

    Your rough guide says a medium bore is 0.455. The trumpet you are using is 0.459, a 0.004 difference. The trumpet you would like to buy has a bore of 0.462, a 0.003 difference with the one you currently use.

    So the difference between what your book says is M and what Yamaha calls ML is larger (slightly) than the difference between what you are palying now and what you want to play. I am doubtful that the change in bore alone will make that much difference. There are so many other factors involved in how a horn feels that I'm not sure you should worry about that one number.

    My modest opinion would coverge with Rowuk's: you really can't tell unless you try the horn. Ideally, you should try it over a week or so. I have a Fullerton Ambassador that I used to think was OK. Now that I've had to play on it for several days, I realized I don't like it much and that it is fine as a last resort back up. Perhaps it's not a good match for my MP, but that is one thing I don't want to change now, so I'm going back to my trusted Yammy, which I believe to be quite a good instrument.
  10. zorrosg

    zorrosg Pianissimo User

    Jan 30, 2011

    Thanks to one and all who have given great advice and feedback on this matter. Just to explain a little about my situation :

    I live in a place in Asia where there is not many big stores stocking wind instruments, and the ones that have some won't let you try a bunch of trumpets. Secondly, I almost always prefer to buy used, in order to stretch my dollar. The choices for second hand trumpets here generally range from almost none to zero.

    Because of this circumstance, I almost always buy a horn 'blind' off Ebay or from individual sellers in the US through forums. Actually I'm a sax player, and have bought at least 10 saxophones off Ebay blind, with generally good results.

    This is the reason why I always do a lot of research, come on forums to seek advice and so on, because I never get to try or even see the horn beforehand, except through pictures and descriptions. This is why forums like this and others are so invaluble to me to tap as a knowledge resource. In trumpet especially, since I'm just picking it up, and know very little about the instrument and it's details, brands etc. In saxes, I'm already very knowledgeable, due in large part to my own experience and the SOTW forum for saxes.

    Based on the advice given, it seems the most prudent thing would be to wait at leat a year or two before buying a step up horn, since I have the Yamaha YTR2335. But at the same time, it seems like the Jupiter 1604 large bore is no actually so 'large' after all, and student horns used to be even larger. Given that it is only 0.003" larger than my current horn, then I feel it is quite safe to buy, and shouldn't increase my stamina demands by 30 to 50% which is what I am most afraid of. Unfortunately, I will never get the chance to play even a few horns as I always buy long distance. That is why I am seeking advice and information in the first place. If I could play test the horn, or order it on trial basis, then I should be able to judge for myself wheher the horn feels good.

    Based on my experience with owning 15 saxophones, I would say that as long as one has a good quality instrument, then the rest is largely up to us, the players to make good sounds and music with the horn. But unfortunately, I am one of those players who have a year round attack of GAS periodically. But anyway, I find the study and selection of instrument choices, just on spec and forum discussions to be very pleasurable in itself, as is the communication with fellow enthusiasts of the instrument.

    Anyway, do keep the posts coming, if anyone wants to share their experience and views on this matter. Many thanks everyody - TrumpetMaster members rock!
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011

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