Lead pipe reversal??

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by applianceguy, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. applianceguy

    applianceguy Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2012
    San Antonio Texas
    Okay,

    So, if it is advantageous to reverse the leadpipe.., then can I cheat, and simply reach into the existing leadpipe with a narrow roundfile, and acheive simiar results??
    This is a "B USA" trumpet and it has a great sound for a beginner trumpet, but it has a flat spot when trying to get above the staff. When it is not yet warmed up.., I almost always cannot get an F right away, and it falls off unless I force it. I think it is an airflow restriction?? Anything above that, and it is OK. maybe it is #1 valve problem??
    I do not want to ruin this horn. Although it is a cheap horn, it looks and sounds GREAT!!
    What can I do to improve lead pipe, without reversing it?? Can I reach in and file it W/out causing it to sound too flat or sharp??

    Also, I was thinking maybe if a file cannot round it, I can try a tapered grinding tip, like from a dremel tool, and lengthen it's shaft to reach into there.??
     
  2. DaTrump

    DaTrump Forte User

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    It isn't advantageous to reverse a leadpipe, it is a preference.

    I don't think you can make one by filing, it requires some bracing removal as well but I'd wait for the experts on this bit.
     
  3. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    I have many horns with and without reversed leadpipes. Whether one is better than the other is very subjective. The theory behind a reversed leadpipe is a less restrictive blow. But, there are other factors that contribute to how a horn's blow feels. My Committees both have reversed pipes, yet the freest blowing horn I own doesn't! I wouldn't spend the time "fixing" what may not be broken. You may regret it.
     
  4. entrancing1

    entrancing1 Mezzo Piano User

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    Buffalo, NY
    I am no tech, and not even a trumpet player, but my intuition tells me nooooooooooooooooooo. :-o
     
  5. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    A "reverse leadpipe" is really a reversed tuning slide setup. Taking a round file or dremel to the inside of yours will probably ruin it, unless you are extremely lucky and do something beneficial by accident. You can easily check the 1st valve alignment by removing the slide, pressing the valve down, and noting how well the valve holes align with the slide tubes. But...if, as you say, the horn improves after it is warmed up, maybe it's not the horn...maybe you improve after you're warmed up...;-)
     
  6. applianceguy

    applianceguy Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2012
    San Antonio Texas
    Dale Proctor,

    Thanks, I think it is the valve, because if you remember your experience with a brand new horn.., you really have to clean the valves before they work smoothly. #1 valve was the WORST!! I had hell with that one sticking until recently, so I think like you said, it is an alignment issue. Also, I upgraded the springs and felts to a Yamaha brand, and as far as smoother action, that was definitely a noticeable improvement. It even improved the clarity of the sound.
    Originally it had rubber cap stops instead of felt, and the springs looked like they were alumminum or something. I had to keep stretching them out,The new ones are brass I think, definetly better action. No, it is not due to this upgrade that is causing a non alignment of the valves, as getting an F with a cold horn has been an issue since day one with this horn. If anything, it has improved somewhat, but like you say..,it could be just me??
    Back to the topic of Thread.., would it help to clean up the sound, by grinding the lead pipe just inside where the Mouthpiece goes?? Has anyone tried this??
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  7. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    The pads you replaced could have affected the alignment. The ridge inside the mouthpiece receiver is where tha all-important "gap effect" happens, so that may not be a good idea, either. BTW, the last time I owned a new horn was about 1964...:lol:
     
  8. entrancing1

    entrancing1 Mezzo Piano User

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    Feb 16, 2010
    Buffalo, NY
    yes it could just be you, getting an F with a cold horn being an issue sounds like an embouchure problem, get a teacher. I thought the same when I got a new Pro yammie french horn and I struggled with some notes speaking cleanly, it was definitely me, not the horn. Some work with Singer's method for building embouchure book helped me out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  9. applianceguy

    applianceguy Pianissimo User

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    May 22, 2012
    San Antonio Texas
    Okay,

    New info.., Dale you were RIGHT!! It is the valve!! I guess it is a bad valve, because every other hole lines up spot on except for #1 valve.

    No it is not the new valve springs, or felts,that is causing this, If anything, that improved the alignment, because the rubbers were to high and tight. #1 valve, the bore on the valve does not align with only the hole that is on the top of the #1 slide. every other hole aligns very well, except for this one. It is okay on the top, but the valve hole has a sharp ridge, almost like a burr, and I am reluctant to open it up, and here is why.
    I was told (In Middle school) to leave these edges alone!!!..,that these are supposed to be sharp to "Cut" the sound??
    I guess If I mess with it, I better have a new one that will fit, so If I screw this one up.., then I will have a back-up repalcement.
    Should I start another Thread?? as this one is supposed to be about restriction, and Leadpipe, but I think I found my problem. #1 valve.
    Can someone pull there horn and check their alignment of #1 top hole of slde..,and tell me what therirs looks like??
     
  10. Bochawa!!!

    Bochawa!!! Forte User

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    All that you might achieve with a round file would be to smooth the step down (increase in bore) a bit. A reverse set up still has a step down. Now, if one subscribes to the Pilczuk theory then smooth is bad and steps are good, provided you put them in some carefully and mathematically calculated place:stars:. After all was said and done you'd still have the step back up (decrease in bore) to contend with. I'd recommend trying it on an old beater first.
     

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