Leadpipe - Large pipe vs. small pipe - which one to use ?

Discussion in 'Horns' started by Larry Gianni, Nov 16, 2003.

  1. Larry Gianni

    Larry Gianni Piano User

    265
    4
    Nov 11, 2003
    Los Angeles
    eHi All,

    I'd like to hear your experienece with leadpipes.

    On a Large bore trumpet , do you use a smaller pipe to balance the trumpet or do you use a large one and try to find resistance somewhere else , say backbore , throat , ?

    Oh by the way, Resistance is a good thing in trumpet playing and is something that is necessary, but it has to find it's equolibrium with the other variables. It's finding the balance and just the right amount that is the hard part.

    It's like Choresteral - There's Good resistance and Bad Resistance, but without resistance , you'd be putting your mouthpiece into a straight piece of brass.

    Back to the question: On a ML or M bore trumpet , do you use a larger pipe to let air flow and mellow out the sound or do you use a tighter pipe so the tumpet is more balanced.

    When I'm playing my best, it's like I'm just " humming " into the horn and then I know , all the resistance ( tongue , lips , jaw , rim diameter , cup, throat , backbore , gap , leadpipe , tuning crook ( standard or reversed )bell flair, etc ) is all balanced and I'm high over the crowd , walking my tightrope with ease.

    We've all experiance that felling. The days you can't miss.

    Here's an example: I have a early Elkhart Bach, tuneble bell C trumpet with a 238 ( vinabonna ) G bell . Do I put on a #6 pipe so my articulation and " PP " playing is easier , the notes slot easier and endurance is improved or do I put on a 25H or even a 7 so the whole trumpet is large with a bigger tone, more robust, wider slots , more fluid playing but with the inherent problems that will occur with having the lips and body do most of the work.

    Please give me you opinions and experiences.

    Trivia: What do the Martin Committee , Schilke B6 , Yamaha Z trumpet , Reeves V-Raptor , Marcienk. Coppola Model , and the Callet " Jazz trumpet ( plus couple of others ) all have in common?
     
  2. rhdroc

    rhdroc Pianissimo User

    73
    0
    Nov 17, 2003
    Central Pennsylvania
    Leadpipe Preferences

    I play one of John Duda's Tulsa-made 1sZ/3RL with a .468 bore. I prefer a more open, yet efficient, horn and with the 3RL I feel that I have the best of both worlds. The 3RL feels slightly more open than the 2 I had on my Hollywood 1s2 yet there's still enough resistence to keep everything in balance. I tried a friend's 3/9L and felt that it was too open. When I puchased my horn, John was kind enough offer to replace the 3RL with a 2 if I didn't like the blow. Now that I'm used to the horn, I won't have it anyother way!!

    By the way, I prefer the bright, commerical sound in my playing. I have a Calicchio flugel for the dark, smokey stuff.

    ---<Rick
     
  3. Larry Gianni

    Larry Gianni Piano User

    265
    4
    Nov 11, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Hi Rick,

    That’s a great trumpet and I’m proud to say that I had a hand in its development.

    For some of you don’t understand what model w are talking about it is basically a large bore trumpet
    With a reversed leadpipe that a tapers very slowly (Calicchio #3 leadpipe, same one Walt Johnson used),
    .468 valve section and a lite weight, bronze alloy, 1s Bell.

    The original idea was an adaptation of Mike Williams calicchio (lead trpt with Count Basie) which is a hybrid ML / L bore (tuning crook is large bore)
    #3 pipe, standard tuning slide and bracing, ml valves section with a large 1s/ L bell.

    Well after a R and D it was agreed that #3 pipe on a large bore really makes the LB manageable but by adding the reversed leadpipe, it helped the slotting and added more stability to the sound while still having a super open upper register. With the 1s / Z (bronze alloy) / lite weight (believe John starts with .013 brass sheet) it really falls into place.

    The Hollywood shop didn’t offer this model or anything close to it but John wanted something that would be exclusily a Tulsa- Calicchio standard model and he really hit on it with this one.
    If you like a trumpet that holds your sound together in the mid and lower registers and helps with a “attacks “actually opens up wider as you start playing higher ns lets you start really “ rip “ thru the notes plus being a really efficient (you get a sensation of just “humming “into the trumpet and getting this huge volume of sound ) so you can play longer passages with the same amount of air, then this is your Baby.

    I also have a 3/9 made in 1973, which is what Freddie Hubbard plays, and this is definitely a large bore trumpet. For lead work, If you use a lead type mouthpiece that has a tight backbore that can help balance a free blowing trumpet like the 3/9 largebore than you might want to try this. Eric Miyashira played a 3/9L on Woody and Buddy’s band but I believe he was using a Schilke 6a4a at the time.

    I love to use mine when I want to really “ sing “ out a ballad or need to play very loud ( like a rock band ) and am using a mike so I no need to project over other instruments acoustically.
    It plays alot like a Vintage Large Bore Martin # 3 (like Mic Gillette played when he was with Tower of Power,) it gets that sort of sound and feel for me.

    In my opinion, both these trumpets offer so much more than the .470 bores that are offered by 2 other “internet “ trumpet manufacturers (without naming names.) which I have tried out and that seem to have found a following because , I believe , of the lack of alternatives in the market.

    I would really suggest trying the 1sZ / 3LR for anyone looking for that big, commercial, “ Vegas “ type sound , with a real fat “ sizzle “ to it.
    And let me clarify something, when I use the term †sizzle†, it does not mean “nasal†or “ piercing “ as you play higher , it’s describes the “ intensity “ and “ drive“ of the sound and what it’s meant to convey.

    Thanks Rick, for bring that model to the attention of the forum and I think your decision to use the 3 pipe is the right one. During the proto-type stage I tried that version with the 2 pipe and even thou it played very good, it lost a little “ personality “ if you know what I mean.

    Larry
     
  4. rhdroc

    rhdroc Pianissimo User

    73
    0
    Nov 17, 2003
    Central Pennsylvania
    Leadpipe Preferences

    Be sure to tell both John and Dave I said hi!!!

    ---<Rick
     
  5. Larry Gianni

    Larry Gianni Piano User

    265
    4
    Nov 11, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Rick,

    I talk to John and Dave once or twice a week to see how it's going.

    I'm here in Los Angeles so there not much I can help them with now. I was working on the Dave Trigg model with them and I think we are really close. It's going to be quite a " Flame Thrower "

    I got to tell you, Dave Trigg is one of the nicest guys out there. He's a very personable guy, that is a pleasure to know.
    He was living here in Los Angeles for a while, but moved back to New York about 6 month's ago.

    Most of you know he's been the lead trumpet player with Natalie Cole for the past 11 years , but when he's home in New York, he does alot of work on Broadway , plus jobs in Atlantic City.

    He's a great guy.

    LG
     

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