Learn how to tongue!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gunshowtickets, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

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    I had my first ever private trumpet lesson earlier this evening from a good friend of mine with a very high level of talent and understanding of trumpeting, both natural and theoretical.
    Today's first "food group" was tonguinig. Without giving away his work, he had some very good descriptions of tonguing and how it changes through the registers. He said he used it when he was training military band students and out of 200, 196 were able to use the technique, the remainder had other issues that kept them from using it, like one had a speech impediment.
    I told him he needs to record his lessons and charge a nominal fee for them on the internet.

    Interesting things I've learned. Tonguing greatly influences tone and if you tongue every note in the range equally, you're missing out.

    Just like with powerlifting, anthropometry plays a big role in what works for a person. Copying a technique to exact detail more than likely won't wok, so some adaptation will be necessary.

    Native English speakers have a particularly hard time using our tongues properly in that we, as a whole, tongue off the roofs of our mouths. Then we read Arban's, we see the syllable "tu" and don't know it isn't pronounced the same en fran├žais, so context is important.



    Moral of the story: find a private instructor and get to brass tacks! We worked backwards to find my most efficient method and went from there, so I've been working harder than I should have. Now to get to working to practice the material.


    Unrelated question: how do our British friends pronounce the surname "Taliaferro"? This came up later at my parents' and I said, "We'll settle this by axin mthe trumpetmasters."
     
  2. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

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    Expanding a little more because the thought popped into my head this morning, I would use the words "surgical precision" to describe this method of tonguing. I'm going to have to do some diligent work to break my old habits. When I do, though, oh, it sounds glorious.
     
  3. SteveRicks

    SteveRicks Fortissimo User

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    So you are not going to give us the jest of the technique? It is likely that others also teach something similar. I'm assuming it involves small movement of the tongue, using it as a valve to stop the flow of air, starting with tip at line between teeth and gum. Tu should be pronounced ta. Or maybe it is something completely different. Private lessons do help and are great.
     
  4. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    WOW! Glad that you got it started!
    I, too...have never had a private lesson in my life...actually never a lesson at all.
    In my junior year of high school, being the most proficient player in my school band (as many of us here today on Trumpetmaster might have been), our poor overworked director had his focus on and hands full with those lagging behind...and had no time to accelerate those ahead to full potential, nor challenge. At that phase a private teacher would have been an amazing propellant...but I was left on my own devices...and was approached by the local new symphony orchestra to cover the horn section alone in practices (and a pro brought in for the concert)...So...thrust alone into the unfamiliar world of horn parts for Mozart. The first piece put before me was originally scored for natural horn, and would have kept even the natural horn player busy swapping crooks in a frenzy...So where they changed crooks, I had to mentally transpose in that one piece keys both in treble (and new to me) bass cleft, open and muted (in a horn muting raises the pitch a half step UNLESS the standing wave is started BEFORE the hand is slid into the bell in which case the pitch does NOT rise but the standing wave remains at the same pitch...wild, huh?
    Anyway, while all that was going on, I was learning the new fingerings for a double horn...which when in Bflat is itself a transposition...and began playing with a college wind ensemble especially focused on Handel' s Water Music.
    So, my junior year Tuesday evenings were fully occupied by the symphony and my Wednesday evenings by the wind ensemble...and Fridays by football games...
    Never, NEVER a chance to have a teacher. Rather, I was assigned to being a teacher for the horn section...sharing what little I had figured out on my own...and much of that likely squirrely information. This was DECADES before YouTube....there was not much local resource from which to draw. The closest professional player forty miles away...and aside from vinyl records which were scarce for me on the subject...a great dearth of information on the subject of playing a (French) horn.

    So...a teacher!
    I know that you are thrilled and ripe for capitalizing on this amazing opportunity!
    I am excited for you!
     
  5. Yamypappy

    Yamypappy New Friend

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    I had a teacher when I learned to play at age 40, a professional player with the Air Force band in DC. He brought me from nothing to playing at church in three years. A teacher/coach is a must. My current teacher is student himself going for his doctorate so I hope he will be as good.

    Wade
     
  6. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

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    He specifically said "ta" and "tee" are incorrect understandings. You'd have to hear a Frenchman say "tu" to undurstand fully, the Anglo way of saying "tu" doesn't involve the tip of the tongue. You've got the idea, though. I don't want to give away too much. The tip of the tongue is behind the front of the teeth.
     
  7. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    These days, with tagliatelle being so familiar, it would be the same as the Italian source Tagliaferro - 'iron cutter'.
     
  8. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

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    How about we say we're in Askham Roger in 1975?
     
  9. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Back in 1975, Roger could tell which street in York someone came from by their accent and vocabulary. As soon as an outsider opened his mouth, he knew whether they were from Leeds, Bradford, Halifax, Huddersfield, Sheffield, Barnsley, Doncaster, Hull, Bridlington, Scarborough, Harrogate, Ripon etc etc.

    Roger was still being taught RP English as a foreign language.

    His knowledge of people from distant shores had barely improved from that encapsulated in a tale from Napoleon's time. Read that link and then think on the odds against being able to work out how the great-great-great-great-great-greatgrandparents of such people would have pronounced an obscure southern european surname.

    Some questions shall forever remain a mystery. :-)
     
  10. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    Seth, while we digress, give me a translation, what type of instruments are NAKERS, they have a different meaning here as in cricket to be hit in the.

    Regards, Stuart.
     

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