Legit and Jazz

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Heavens2kadonka, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    Okay, this may or may not be a good question, so be forewarned! :lol:


    I have always considered myself a naturally dark player. I also have always wondered how a player in jazz can have that "jazz" sound. Its hard to explain, but the difference in sound between a principal orchestra player and a professional jazzer.


    If someone wanted to maybe approach the sound production in a jazzier style, what visualizations should be....Visualized? :D What mechanically is done, if anything? (I said this may or may not be a good question!)

    Van
     
  2. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    It's an interesting question. At one time, I used the same mouthpiece and trumpet for all of my playing and at that time, I was doing all of the playing that an Army band trumpet player would do, plus. I was playing in concert band, stage band, ceremonial band and brass quintet. At the time, I didn't consciously think about changing my sound, I just played the style and the sound I produced matched. It was brighter and brassier for jazz band, thicker and darker for brass quintet.

    I will say that at the time, I was playing on a Marcinkiewicz mouthpiece and with more of a V cup, it lent itself very well to allowing you to color your sound without changing equipment.

    I wish I could be more help. Right now I have two mouthpieces, one for lead and one for legit, and the sound that I get out of them matches for the situations where I use them.
     
  3. NickD

    NickD Forte User

    Gettin that "jazz"sound

    Ok, I think this is a very good question, fwiiw!

    I tend to do it with a combination of approaches.

    By and large I do it with "aperture management" and air. However, when I play legit, I'll use my Opera model in my C or the 3C model in my B-flat (both asymmetrics). In conventional mouthpieces, I'll go back and forth between a Laskey 84c and an 80S*.

    How I decide depends on what I am doing. Two weeks ago, I had a jazz gig with a small group in a room that was to small for a trumpeter. I was literally blowing right into the faces of a family trying to eat dinner. I used a cornet with an Opera model in it. I even used a cup mute much of the time.

    Generally, though I use my Lead model for all my jazz work and the others for my legit work.

    I hope that helsp a bit. REally what you hear is the biggest part of it. The equipment just makes it easier to do.

    TTFN

    Nick
     
  4. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    May I weigh in with a slightly different take?

    In lieu of going the equipment route ( except for clearly different idioms, like scream versus second trumpet on a haydn symphony ) I have compared switching back and forth between classical and jazz to the demands of an impressionist. Not Debussy or Ravel but a Rich Little or someone on the Vegas strip who impersonates voices for a living.

    I find that playing Mahler one night and then playing with Mariachi Cobre the next is like an impressionist who hears a voice he has to impersonate, studies it with his ear and then puts into his act when he has it down. Can you play cool jazz without having heard Miles and others from that period? I couldn't which is not to say someone else couldn't.

    But the larger question is can you play in a style without the experience of having heard that style abundantly? I think it would only be a very exceptional person that could.

    So, I don't think that crossing over is that difficult but you have to have a talent for imitation so that the physical aspects of the challenge don't get in the way. You have to have ears that do more than hear. You need a brain that is free to imitate away from conscious physical application.

    ML
     
  5. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    This had always been something I was curious about! I remember playing the solo from Children of Sanchez at my senior high school concert. When I listen to it, my solo does sound jazzy! I was always curious if there was some approach to creating the jazz and legit sound, but I guess it really IS all in my head! :D

    Thanks,
    Van
     
  6. TrentAustin

    TrentAustin Fortissimo User

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    This is simply one of the best posts I've read about switching styles.

    That's what I feel like I'm doing and tell my students to do all the time. In fact my first disc I recorded primarily for my students to try and convince them to listen to all jazz styles. Now if I could only SOUND just like Maurice, Clark, and Manny (yep, I want your amazing sound... can I borrow it for 40 years?)...

    Agh... back to the shed.

    Thanks again for all the insight, Manny. It's a great treat to read your posts!

    Best,

    Trent
     
  7. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    I worked with the brass of a high school jazz band for a couple of years and at one point I them if any of them actually listened to the things that they were trying to play. Most of them hadn't listened to the big band jazz or funk that they were trying to play, (obviously, from where I was standing) and I asked them how they planned on playing a style of music that they weren't familiar with. I am a big believer in the idea that it is hard to convincingly play a particular style of music without having listened to it first.

    But that idea begs another question: what did the innovators listen to? They were blazing the trail - they weren't emulating anyone.
     
  8. FreshBrewed

    FreshBrewed Mezzo Piano User

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    Great post Manny! :D Just a little off subject, but I think the same should apply to style........LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN!!!!! Our big band gets very little time to play together except on gigs so the BB leader threw in a few CD's on the way to a gig a few weeks ago. We swung harder than I had ever heard us swing that evening. The ears are a wonderful thing.
     

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