Lip Problem

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by jeeper31, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 20, 2007
    Los Angeles
    As a hard blowing comebacker who continues to err on he side of "can you hear that? How about THAT?", I have to continually remind myself to actually play like I AM in a practice room. You don't need to blow loud, period, ever. Let some of the pros who like to do that, do that. After I started behaving myself, I came back from rehearsals and gigs with pretty fresh chops (unless it was brass quintet :))

  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Doc, I have had a lot of students in all age categories, beginners and experienced players alike. NOT ONE had playing related muscle damage of any kind even although many came to me with real pressure issues. I have had a couple of players with hair lip (one of them had a stroke too). Even they were able to get playing to be fun without specifically focussing on the face muscles.

    It takes only a couple of lessons to get them on track: body use, breathing and learning to listen as well as developing realistic expectations. Once we learn to leverage our strengths and weaknesses, our playing improves dramatically - without a minute more practice per day. Naturally 20 minutes per day is not going to get you the lead chair with Tower of Power, BUT once we learn to rejoice in what we have, where we need to go becomes logical, practically painless and achievable.
  3. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio

    Rowuk, that is because you trained them well. You are practicing preventative medicine in your approach, and this is to be applauded. Unfortunately, there are few of us that have had such knowledgeable teachers of your quality, including me in my early training. Preventative medicine was not the goal. Everything your have posted is RIGHT ON.

    I have seen damage in my medical practice as these individuals were practicing poorly. I have had a reputation in the region for treating musicians, so see a truly skewed side of overuse injury. My posts are more related to END ORGAN damage. In the case of the OP he is describing end organ symptoms. Your advice will prevent such symptoms if he follows them, my additional recommendations is in working the end organ (lip muscles) through an exercise that increased blood circulation to the end organ, and icing to prevent swelling thereafter. This will prevent the remodeling that occurs with various stages of muscle damage. So between the two of use, we will cover the OP at both ends, through optimizing a neuro response (behavior included) and caring for muscle if strained.
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Turtle, do you use the same mouthpiece for both the Recording and the Severinsen? If so, which mouthpiece (brand not size) are you using?

    The reason I ask these questions, is that opening up the sound of a horn is better achieved by working on the back side bore size of the mouthpiece, not the cup size. I found my Recording was not opened up well on the Bach, Olds, Jettone mouthpieces. BUT the mouthpiece that increased my sound on the Recording was a Schilke.

    So have you tried a Schilke on the Recording? If not, give it a try, I am willing to bet the brilliance you get from the Recording will take your breath away!
  5. jeeper31

    jeeper31 New Friend

    Jan 18, 2011
    All this information is awesome and I will definitely sort through it and do what I can to follow it. I definitely need to start doing more exercises to get my lip muscles in shape. I can remember all during the time I played I never really practiced enough. Now that I am 27 years older I would love to put in the time.

    There is great advice here and it is so amazing that you can come to one place and find so many talented people with so much knowledge.

    Hearing myself is the problem especially in the lower register. This is where i think i got "injured" during the gig. We don't have an alto sax so I have taken on the Sax solo in "Heart of Rock and Roll" I could not hear myself at all and I was fighting the guitars and keyboards. It's strange playing through the PA and honestly my monitor is not set up well. It is one speaker in front of us but that too is very hard to hear. To further complicate matters I am also trying to get used to wearing earplugs (Custom fit with a 9db filter in them).

    As far as what I am using... I have a Bach Stradivarius and am using a Bach 7C mp. I also bought a 10 1/2 C but really haven't used it. Is there another MP you could recommend?
  6. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    Jun 6, 2010

    I use the Monette B2S3 with all my trumpets ..... I do have a few Schilkes lying about (that came with used trumpets I bought) .... a 16 and a 13A4 ...... The 16 is nice but the other one is way too shallow for me to get comfortable with. Still, I prefer the sound of the Monette. It has an 81 and a 17 stamped on it (the Prana) and maybe those numbers just need to be different and my B2S3 (or something like it) could make a perfect match with the Recording. I'd order a new Prana MP if I could get a perfect match with my Olds Recording, so there may be a trip to Portland in my near future.

  7. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    I was going to ask if you could move your position on stage ... I use to stand on the side away from the B-3 and guitars ..the further back the better for me the better. I honestly think your band is probably playing too loud on stage. Todays sound systems are so good everything should run through them so the sound guy can balance the group. . You really should be concerned about your hearing. I could never nor would I want to play with ear plags... that's a horrible experience.
    I use to use a Bach 3C which is a pretty bright mp. The 10 1/2 C is a smaller cup not really a shallow cup so it won't brighten up your sound. Like I said the Shilke 14A4A is used but it isn't for someone who has weak chops. I have read a few comments about people who can't play after 10 minutes because their chops collapse into the mp ( I am just regurgitating what I have read on the Shilke). You really need to try out mps...have someone with you to listen and if at all posible consult a trumpet instructor... it's really impossible for us to know what is happening and why... just some educated guesses and from past experience.
    The Bach trumpet is fine.. that's what I used. Make sure it's clean inside, dirt can dull the sound as well.
    Practice is better ...
    Keep us posted
  8. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

    May 4, 2007
    Greensboro, NC
    You've only been back playing two months.What do you expect. It's muscle tissue with a piece of metal pressing against it. It takes months of intellegent playing to get endurance and range back unless you resort to bad playing habits. even 30 minutes a day 5 days a week will be a start. You have to play more days a week than not otherwise you become what I call a "hack". The worst kind of player.
  9. jeeper31

    jeeper31 New Friend

    Jan 18, 2011
    I have not played since the gig and then went to rehearsal (span of span of 6 days in between). My lips still feel weird. Played a little the day after rehearsal (7 days from gig) and realized that my lips feel fine in the lower register but once i hit a G (note on top of staff) my lips seem to stop vibrating. I can get a sound but they take a fraction of a second to start vibrating. In other words my sound is preceded by just air.

    What should i do? Continue to practice? Take some time off? Practice easily? Do certain exercises?

    I am a tad worried as I do have another gig on 11/11/11.

    Thanks in advance.
  10. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc New Friend

    Oct 19, 2011
    SC weekdays, NC weekends
    Yeah, but if we're really trying to help they guy get his lip straightened out then "Hey bar keep, make this one a virgin."

    The alcohol may help your mood, but it sure doesn't help the body chemistry, unfortunately.

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