Lip swelling on Shallow Pieces

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Mark_Kindy, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Mark_Kindy

    Mark_Kindy Mezzo Forte User

    Jul 11, 2010
    Gainesville, FL
    Playing on shallow mouthpieces, experiencing more swelling than usual -- is this from the mouthpiece being shallow, or from the type of playing that I'm doing on the mouthpiece? (high d-g range)
    What's the best way to counter this?

    Thanks in advance,

  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    It's the "Chicken or the Egg" argument here. Usually, people use a shallower cup to play higher... so I think you have been over working on the mouthpiece, and whether you would be using a deeper cup of shallow cup, if you are playing harder in a more demanding range, your lips will swell.
  3. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio

    Wasn't that a swell answer I just gave you?;-)
  4. DaTrump

    DaTrump Forte User

    Oct 21, 2011
    Huntsville, Texas
    Well first, how different is your lip engagement in the mouthpiece? In other words, do you play IN the cup with your normal mouthpiece, and on the lead piece do you play IN the cup, or ON the cup?
  5. Mark_Kindy

    Mark_Kindy Mezzo Forte User

    Jul 11, 2010
    Gainesville, FL
    Gmonady -- I love your puns. They've been sorely missed!

    DaTrump - I've actually fixed it so my lip engagement is not as much as it used to be, especially on lead mouthpieces. I've also reduced the pressure I use when playing, in general.
    I think perhaps intense playing has caused my lips to swell, and then perhaps the mouthpiece isn't as wide as I would like, so my lips are on the cup not in the middle, but a little further out on the radius. That's a theory anyways...

    It's usually solved by the next day, but I have had some bottoming out issues on occassion
  6. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    It is quite common in the "heat" of playing a shallow mouthpiece to get too much of the lip protruding into the cup and thus putting the squeeze on the lips that can only be overcome by excessive and damaging effort ... very often a closure of the air flow aka bottoming out. If you persist on the shallow cup, I'd not allow you to go to a wider cup, my rationale being that such would only allow you to put more of your lip in the cup and the same consequence The answer recommended is a thicker rim for comfort.
  7. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Cat Anderson was able to play some extremely shallow mouthpieces because he had an extremely small amount of lip intrusion. For those of use who use normal to extreme lip intrusion, the lips themselves make the cup shallower. About the most shallow I can handle is the Curry Z cup, and when paired with a Monster sleeve sound darker and cleaner without a noticeable lack of efficiency. I can sound like Bill Chase for about 30 seconds on a 6A4a. After that I go back to sounding like a Chase wannabe.
  8. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    Back off a bit and see if it helps.
  9. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    LOOK at this and C that young Mark Kindy has ONCE again answered his own question!!!! uhm, YOUNG MARK ((by the way welcome back, where have you been??, oh that's right didn't you change majors from music to Elementary Particle Physics with and Emphasis on Quantum Theory, and Thermodynamics???? ---- yeah that takes up some time ---- ((((of course the Aussies will hear that, and ask if you can come down under to redesign their airline -- Quantus -- Quantum theory, it all sounds the same to them!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL
    OH -- yes, back to the question!!! --- and since you answered it already --- my question is ----- SO WHY DONT YOU USE A DEEPER MPC TO PREVENT THE SWELLING IN THE LIPS IN THE HIGHER RANGE??? all you would have to do is play a little bit more to build up endurance with the deeper mpc, and scrap the idea that a shallow mpc is better!!!! ---- YEAH, look at the fundamental physics of the situation, and you will C, a deeper mpc and you still will be able to get the D-G!!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL
  10. Pete

    Pete Piano User

    Nov 17, 2007
    Hi Mark,

    The biggest problem is usually trying to get the same feel on the shallower piece. As stated earlier, you answered your own question. We are trying to maximize compression when we use a shallower mouthpiece. When it is forced, you negate the mouthpiece compression assistance of a shallow mouthpiece and bottom out.


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