Lip Trilling

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Pseudonym, Jul 19, 2009.

  1. Pseudonym

    Pseudonym Pianissimo User

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    So, I've set out to accomplish this since the beginning of this year and haven't had any such luck. I've heard very many reports of having to differentiate notes and pitches with the two syllabyls AHH and EE and even EH with the tongue raised for some of the Stratospheric notes, however I've also heard that that really doesn't do all that much but distract the player.

    I know there's also a shake-trill, and I don't care for that since whenever I've seen it done, it sounds incredibly messy and I've never heard someone be able to wide or slow trills with it.

    Will any advice given over the internet do me any good at all?
     
  2. BenH

    BenH Pianissimo User

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    Colins' Lip Flexibilities, and lots of 'em. Also, as ever, get a teacher and work on it with him/her.
     
  3. Pseudonym

    Pseudonym Pianissimo User

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    I'm trying to avoid the teacher bit, that's money I don't have. Is it really just fast lip flex's - I thought there was something more to it.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll only post what is safe without ever having seen and heard you play.

    Lip trills require something to move at the speed of the trill. We have the option of our hand or tongue. There is nothing else in the system that could move this fast.

    Both methods require superior breathing to prevent "side effects". The hand can be immediately used as that pressure is great enough to force even a medocre supported tone to change partial. The tongue needs practice similar to what you did to learn double tonguing.

    You did not start with tukutukutukutukutukutukutukutukutukutukutukutukutukutuku. You started with tukutu and then added repetitions as the tongue became more cooperative. It is the same here. You start with taaaeeeaaah, taaaeeeaaah, concentrating on airflow, not tongue motion. Once your breathing is big enough to cover both notes being played (octave+ slurs from Schlossberg are VERY good for this!), the trill gets easier. The rest is synchronization of all factors.

    If your double tongue stinks, the trill will probably too. If it is good, light, fast, positive, then you are well on your way.
     
  5. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    A lip trill is a lip slur, using your hand is a shake which at one time was also called an exaggerated vibrato, if you want to work on your lip trills, like BenH said ,get Colin's "Advanced Lip Flexibilities" and work your tail off.
     
  6. ComeBackKid

    ComeBackKid Fortissimo User

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    OK, I guess I'm showing my comeback ignorance again. I have not before heard of lip trills and from the discussion, I am having difficulty imagining what it actually is. On one hand, I see mention of using the tongue. Is this different in some way from flutter tonguing? At the same time, I see mention of using the hand vibrato. When I first learned, that is the vibrato that I was taught and I used it for years as the standard vibrato method. When I started my comeback, my instructor was aghast. He said that NOBODY used the hand vibrato and that I needed to learn the lip vibrato - which I have now done. The hand vibrato does not seem to be fast enough to actually produce what I imagine by the word 'trill'. I have watched introductory videos on Youtube produced by the US Army band and in one of those, they demonstrate a very rapid lip slur between different notes, though they are harmonics, not adjacent notes. Could that be it? Or, is there someplace I can read more about what a lip trill is and why it is used?
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    A lip trill is exactly that: a fast back and forth of two adjacent notes (partials). It is commonly used when playing a natural trumpet where we have no valves. In big band jazz, shakes (just about the same thing - but brought on by shaking the horn thus changing the pressure on the chops) used to be very common but I hear more lip trill these days. Flutter tongue is something altogether different. There is no pitch change associated with the flutter tongue.

    Theses are lip trills:
    YouTube - Trumpet Voluntary, Clarke on Natural Clarino Trumpet
    YouTube - Maynard Ferguson Give It One

    Here is a shake:
    (at about 3:48)
    YouTube - Count Basie-shiny stockings

    YouTube - Obnoxious Lead Trumpet Shake Battle....
     
  8. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    While not exactly the same thing, if you can't growl, the flutter tongue could could be used in it's place for a similar affect.
     
  9. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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  10. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

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    Another effective method is in the Arban's book. Start on page 42. When you can do the exercise smotthly and cleanly at the marked metronome tempo go to the next one. These exercises are preperation for lip trills. Be patient, it takes time to train the muscles. there are no shortcuts.
     

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