Lips slurs or simply lip trills?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Kiddo, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. Kiddo

    Kiddo New Friend

    Jan 30, 2010
    Well, I've nvr thought of it before till now...

    How do the pros do their partials so immensely fast n accurate?
    For example, the starting slurs in the staigers' version of carnival of venice; ppl like vizzutti are able to do so without breaking a sweat, all within the span of a few seconds.

    Are they doing 'true' slurs; just air and all, or do they incorporate tongue archs kinda like ur trills where u compress n vary the air stream?

    If it is really the former, how do u do so tat insanely fast? been at tis routine for years alrd and I'm still nowhere close to even that kinda mastery.
  2. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Welcome to the club, Kiddo!

    The only tip I can convey is to play the note half-way between the two and memorize it. This is home,

    Let's say it is a trill between c and e in the staff. Play a d, hold everything the same in your mouth and let go of the valve. Subtle motions should be able to make it go up and down between the e and the c. Try to avoid the C E C E C E C syndrome and train the motion, letting it happen. When you get good at it, then you can do it loudly.

    Have fun, for it is extremely cool to be able to do lip trills in the staff!
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    It is the tongue, and not all players get it. Breathing has to be really together first and tonguing very light but precise.
  4. tpetplyr

    tpetplyr Pianissimo User

    Dec 15, 2003
    A lip-trill is simply the stringing together of very many, very fast, lip slurs. They are not different techniques; the trill is an extension of the slur. In the same vein, the valve trill is similar to the valve slur.

  5. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

    Jun 16, 2010
    I thought a lip trill only involved two notes, while a lip slur could involve many notes on the same partial?

    Also.... Vulgano Brother, about your suggestion... if you focus on the "inbetween" note, doesn't it make the lip slur out of tune? Isn't part of the purpose not only doing it, but also in tune? Or am I missing something? I'd love to be able to focus on the "inbetween" note or, well, ANYTHING to make lip slurs easier, but I just want to make sure on this.

    When I think about it my trumpet teacher, an orchestra member, once told me to do it that way. Is that really a good idea? I just want an extra verification. Maybe I'll talk with my "new" teacher that I'll be seeing shortly about this, as well.

    Thanks for any help you can give.
  6. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    You're right -- a lip trill is a lip slur, but a lip slur isn't necessarily a lip trill. But the technique is the same as Rowuk pointed out. You need to alter the tongue arch and elevation in your mouth to change the way the air acts against your lips. If you're doing a lip trill you only have two notes to worry about, if you're doing arpeggios with the same valve combination you have more notes to worry about.

    There are terrific pages to help you with lip slurs in the Arban's book.
  7. jim trpt1

    jim trpt1 Pianissimo User

    Aug 7, 2010
    greensboro nc
    I don't call them lip slurs, I believe tongue trill is the correct term. I do mine with the tongue, particularly noticable in the upper register.
    I don't believe you could do it fast enough or last long endurance wise using your embouchure alone.
  8. cruiseshipgreg

    cruiseshipgreg New Friend

    Jul 7, 2009
    on a ship somewhere....
    If the real question here is "How do the pros do their partials so immensely fast n accurate?", there is certaily more to it than the simple air, tah-ee-ah-ee-ah-ee thing. These world class players like Vizzuti, etc. have obviously down the dirty hard work of hours and hours practicing flexibility excercies like Schlossberg, etc...
  9. Josh

    Josh New Friend

    Sep 28, 2009
    Sonora, CA
    Is the introduction to the Staigers Carnival of Venice stolen from the introduction to Clarke's The Three Aces, or is the introduction to Clarke's The Three Aces stolen from the Staigers Carnival of Venice? Or did they both come up with annoying lip slurs separately?

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