Live sound

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Penstir, Jul 27, 2015.

  1. Penstir

    Penstir New Friend

    9
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    Jun 10, 2013
    sydney
    Thanks for some help! Ive played for a while and have 2 questions about live sound...

    ~ with anything larger than a vocal PA sometimes the sound that comes back through the foldback is just so awaful! ( ok,... I dont think its all me!)- I find it hard to play with such tone, harder to pitch and create the tone you want, any clues? ( sometimes its great, but played on Sat night in a medium range venue in Sydney and Struggled! think I need to know more ways around this!)

    ~ and I guess having my own mic must help... Im a rather soft player; jazz with vocals, lots of harmon, sometimes a fink band, sometimes a pop band with 2 guitars ( really hard to hear...) and one day Ill hopefully play with out latin ensemble, if we get out of the garage...

    Penny

    :dontknow:

    bach strad 37
     
  2. ALWilts

    ALWilts New Friend

    46
    10
    Jun 26, 2015
    England
    Hi Penny

    There could be a few things going on here..

    The first thing with the foldback that I struggled with for a while regardless of what I was playing is the level. Too quiet and you're having to over play to be able to hear yourself. Too loud and you have to back off so much that it affects your playing. Unfortunately, unless you can have the full set up in a room similar to the sort of venues you play, the only way of figuring out what works for you is by trying it out on the gigs.. Once you get an idea of what works for you it's easier to control in different environments.

    The quality and control you have over the foldback is also important. If you're not happy with the tone coming out, it could mean the mic isn't suited for your instrument (that's a whole different conversation) or the monitor or the amp might not be of a great standard (if it's quite a cheap monitor it can really affect the sound). When you play is there a sound engineer who does your sound? It maybe worth seeing if you can EQ the monitor individually to change the tone you're hearing back.

    If all else fails, it might be useful to give In Ear Monitoring a go. I've started doing it recently, and if you can control the volume yourself it solves a lot of problems in one go.. It works for some and not for others, like everything else to do with music! :)

    I hope this is helpful in some way!
     
  3. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Baltimore/DC
    First of all, welcome to the forum!

    Second, I'm not quite sure just what it is you're asking. By "foldback" I'm assuming you are talking about what's coming back to you through monitoring. But are you asking what kinds of microphones to use? Are you asking about mixing and EQ?

    Al mentioned moving to in-ears monitoring, but that's really only helpful if you have decent control over the signal to begin with - if the mix on that particular channel is terrible, being able to control the volume on how much of it gets piped directly into your ear isn't going to matter much.

    Also, are you using the same microphone for vocals and horn? If so, that's probably a big part of the problem. A trumpet, even played fairly softly, generates bigger sound pressure levels (SPLs) than voice, and it needs to be mixed and EQed differently.

    Can you tell us a little bit about the PA setup you are using in terms of the specific microphones and mixing board?
     
  4. Penstir

    Penstir New Friend

    9
    1
    Jun 10, 2013
    sydney
    thanks for the replies and thoughts and advice...
    ( and the welcome- it feels great to be attached to a forum as sometimes me and the t pet have issues for sure!)
    AL:
    -Yes the level of the foldback was weird... with the harmon I was still stuggling, despite being right on the mic, and getting feedback ( despite the engineer saying he would keep an eye on me and ride the levels, Id look up and he was nowhere to be seen!)

    -EQ of the foldback/monitor? could be the thing.... something to work through with the different frequencies...

    - definetely think its time for my own live mic, ( senn E 609??) .... often im given a "57" but I think if i had my own it would give me a fraction more control..
    - may work up to in ear monitoring.... yikes!

    Patrick:
    - yes foldback / monitoring ( sorry im an aussie!)

    - would love advice on a mic for live work........

    - I dont sing :)0 ) so i just get the mic that the mixer thinks would be best..... yes a 9something) 57 usually, this was a medium sized PA and I felt the engineer did have horn experience ( unlike some Ive had where they say you dont need a mic or foldback!!! as i stand in front of 3 different amps and 12 different strings with my sound going straight out... dont worry, i hold my ground for a certain extent!!)

    thanks so much !

    Penny
     
  5. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Jackson NC
    Did I discern your mike is a vocal PA (Public Address) type? If so, that is a big element of your problem. Too, the better the speakers, the better the sound you hear in foldback/feedback. The variables of venues are just something you have to experience and get use to. Personally, I favor a high ceiling.
     
  6. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Baltimore/DC
    There's nothing wrong with an SM57. Is it the best mic out there? Nope, but for $100 US, it's hard to go wrong - you can build the stage with it, using it as a hammer, then play the gig.

    And, you can acquire/make one of these - I just call it a sound shield. Basically, a piece of plexiglas with a rubber grommet in the hole, and you put the SM57 or other round mic in it so that it reflects your sound back to you. That thing saved my bacon on more than one Latin band gig where the volume was high and the monitor mix was terrible.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

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    I use a Shure '57 mic, and agree with Patrick. It's a great mic for the money.

    I normally play in a small group (piano, bass, trumpet), and I usually use my ZT 200 Lunchbox Acoustic Amplifier to amplify my trumpet. It's a great amp for small to medium sized venues.

    But when I play in a larger setting, I still use this same ZT amp as personal monitor and to add my own effects, and use the External Out to send my signal to the PA system.

    Mike
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    In a word:

    Reverb... Reverb... Reverb... Reverb... Reverb... Reverb... Reverb...
     
  9. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    I guess anyone that goes by the name Mike should know. And a Dr. Mike... Well enough said.

    So this non-Mike physician will agree with my esteemed medical contemporary. This is my "Go To" mic (mike) when I am using a stand.
    However, I really love my digital AMT mics that pick up my trumpet and flugelhorn tones (I own one for each) when I go remote. Then in the studio, I love the Ribbon Mics.
     
  10. ALWilts

    ALWilts New Friend

    46
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    Jun 26, 2015
    England
    You know a sound engineer 'loves' music when they're no where to be seen during the gig.. It's a shame when the band and audience are all relying on one guy and it's the last place they want to be..!!

    A lot of venues will be able to EQ the monitor mix. If they can't then you'll probably need to spend a bit more time getting your balance.

    Your own mic is useful. If you're playing in a lot of different venues with different sound engineers it's probably best to go for something simple that they will know how to work. When I used to sing in a band I would always carry an SM58.. Something I could rely on and something I knew every sound engineer will have worked with before.

    As for IEM, it can be a bit of a pain to rig, and it comes with quite a price tag (unless you're like me and someone in your family collects every bit of tech they can get their hands on).

    I would say the most important thing is try and get a bit of control first with your own mic, getting the wedge balance right and just chatting to the sound engineer to let him know what works best for you.
     

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