lower lip curling under.....thoughts from teachers!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by paulyb123, Oct 1, 2008.

  1. screamingmorris

    screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User

    Apr 4, 2007
    I agree.

    Bud Brisbois used to say that he did not use nearly as much air in the upper register as people thought he would need to.

    Over the last couple of years I have gradually used less and less air as my range has increased, because I have deliberately used less mouthpiece pressure and played more softly as my health declines.
    It is amazing how little air I now use for playing medium-loudness High G's (2-1/2 octaves above piano middle C)

    The exact amount of air needed in the upper register will vary according to how loudly the individual is playing, the size of his mouthpiece throat, the size of his trumpet bore, etc.
    Maynard Ferguson used a lot of air in the upper register, but only because he chose to use huge mouthpiece throat and huge trumpet bore and play at FFF amplitude.
    But most players would not need nearly as much air as Maynard to play in the same range.
    (In the "Live at Jimmy's" album, Maynard played more softly, gently than he usually did in concert, such as at the end of "MacArthur Park", so I suspect that he was using only half the air he usually needed.)

    But this relative aspect apparently remains for all players: If maintaining constant amplitude, they all need less air for the upper register than for the lower register, because the embouchure aperture is smaller in the upper register.

    - Morris
  2. KennyC

    KennyC New Friend

    Oct 8, 2008
    I feel strongly that the essence of great teaching is finding the appropriate pedagogical "hook" that works for each individual...
    - Kevin Jaeger

    I agree. I am discovering amazing things via pedal tones.

    As to the original post about the lower lip curling under - there are many monster players that use this technique to reach the upper register. Walt Johnson does this in the upper register and even has a book about it called "Double High C in Ten Minutes."

  3. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    Me too Kevin - that 'ah ha' moment is the aim for the real educator - some of us just don't know it. 'Hook', for ME has conotations akin to snake oil sales techniques - no offence intended - even 'self-directed' or 'learner centered' spring to mind. But you are correct - the 'Hook' may well different for each one of us, finding that particular catalyst is the challenge, isn't it?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2008
  4. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    You are right the oral cavity is always the same size ,but the tongue position does change air speed. I do use less air when playing in the upper register than in the lower register. When I do play high I use faster air pushing from my abs. when playing lower notes I use more air but with less intensity [push] . We may not be talking about the same upper register, I,m talking about playing not squeeking Double Cs, not Ds or Es above the staff. Speaking of myths, if the embouchure is not right all the long tones and lip slurs will not give you a strong lead trumpet sound and range ,I know because I,ve been there. Slightly pushing the jaw forward takes pressure off the top lip and for downstream players like myself makes it easier to aim the air at the bottom rim of the mouthpiece while ascending.Those who think long tones and slurs can cure all are in the dark.
    RobertSlotte likes this.
  5. KCTPTMan

    KCTPTMan New Friend

    Aug 4, 2005
    I just read the messages about maynard and I have his DVD here and after close watching he is an upstream player, most of his lower lip is visible when he ascends. and his horn tilts up adn not down. Having a 65 inch big screen help to see this in detail.

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