Magical Reeves/Calicchio connection?

Discussion in 'Horns' started by Vessehune, Feb 9, 2004.

  1. Vessehune

    Vessehune Pianissimo User

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    Oct 31, 2003
    Sunnyside, WA
    Is there something I'm missing here? I see all these posts from other Calicchio owners how they play with Reeves pieces and they fit so well with the horns etc.. I have never tried a Reeves piece with my Calicchio so I'm wondering if I'm missing something!! :) I guess I'll just have to stick with my GR!!!
     
  2. Larry Gianni

    Larry Gianni Piano User

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    Nov 11, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Brian,

    GR is a very good mouthpiece, no reason to change if you like it, none what so ever. but " missing something" is up to you. If you have never tried a Reeves, then you might be missing nothing or missing something - that's only something you can decide. Plus " missing something " isn't always a positive adventure - ever visit the dentist?

    Being on the West Coast , Reeves is a popular piece out here with all kinds of trumpet brands, like any top quality mouthpiece would be if they were established here. You have to understand, before " internet sales " and " internet / music store dealers " were involved in the music trades, as they are now , you had to visit Reeves shop in Hollywood or at least call and place an order, accompanied by a check or money order, for his stock mouthpiece assemblies , to even get a Reeves mouthpiece. That was also pre-fax days. To actually see Bob, you had to have an appointment for any custom work, ( well, most of the time ). alot of players actually flew in form other parts of the country for a custom mouthpiece session.


    Times have changed and all mouthpieces are now a keystroke away (as long as you have funds to purchase it. ) . So are you missing something , only you can tell. But don"t slide down the slippery slope of a mouthpiece safari , especially at your stage of development ( college student )It's not worth it and I've seen many a head " explode " along the way.

    Larry

    Just my 2 cents - any other thoughts out there?
     
  3. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    To add a comment to what Larry posted; I used a Reeves for a while with my Strad. It wasn't very remarkable FOR ME AT THAT TIME. My own safari then progressed through Dennis Wick, back to Bach, then Warburton and finally (slightly over a year ago) to GR. Of the non-GR pieces, I found the Warburton about the best FOR ME (probably significant is that I changed from the 180 ML37 to the B1). There was a brief exposure to a Laskey in there too; Laskey used to work for Schilke so you would figure his mouthpieces were designed with the Schilke horn in mind. Guess what? NOT for me!

    I'm pretty much settled into the GR now, my "playing" range has gone from a G to high C (hey...I'm an old dude...I have to work harder), and the music is getting easier.

    (Now, just wait until that Eclipse gets ordered and arrives! I'll probably be talking to Bruce again.)

    So I'd agree that a) some of the mouthpiece manufacturers worked for specific horn makers, b) their mouthpieces may be or may be expected to be designed "for that specific brand", but c) it is the combination of you, the horn and the m/p that makes the music.
     
  4. tk

    tk New Friend

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    Feb 9, 2004
    Phila/NJ
    Calicchio/reeves connection

    I've been playing my callicchio for two years now. I have been through all the usual mouthpiece and trumpet quests like most of you. I stumbled onto the horn by accident in a music store that is now out of business and didn't even know much about the horn when they sold it to me. What made me go for it was the way the marcinkiewicz mouthpieces they had at the same store made the horn "explode" when I played it.
    [It almost didn't matter what size marcink. it was either]. I love the reeves mouthpieces... especially the piccolo trumpet ones, but the calicchio/marcink combo seems to breathe fire.

    Thanks for the great forum. I've been learning a lot reading all the posts.
     
  5. Larry Gianni

    Larry Gianni Piano User

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    Nov 11, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Tk and Toots,

    On Joe M's, pieces _

    Joe M is also a Los Angeles based ( originally ) mouthpiece maker that learned the mouthpiece trade and eventually bought the tooling of West Coast mouthpiece great , Bert Herrick ( Bert made Birsbois and Gozzo's, plus many other Los Angeles trumpet veterans , mouthpieces ). both Bert and Joe, being influenced by West Coast players desires, also had a West Coast sound in mind when both developed and designed mouthpieces for many players playing Calicchio's - Joe M started mouthpiece designing and making in the early to mid 80's, when Calicchio's were still the " weapon of choice " for many west coast players in the then thriving studio business.

    Can we agree that different regions of the globe desire and try to obtain a different trumpet sounds based on location, playing companions and situations and teachers influences?

    Also, Joe's signature line was based on copies , not exact, but close, of mainly Bob Reeves mouthpieces. Bob's pieces mainly were the basis that started both Joes reg. and signature lines - I understand that everyone has to start somewhere ( Bob Reeves copied Bert Herrick's piece for Bud Brisbois eventually )- this is not a swipe at Joe in the least so keep your cards and letter to yourself, plus not all were Reeves copies Shew/ Ingram - played Giardinelli prior to Joe's piece, Vax / Vizzutti / Cacia played Schilke's , Roy Roman played Jet Tone, but all these guys had a Reeves in the case somewhere and I too am a big fan of Joe's pieces.

    Back to my point, a West Coast sound was desired by both the players and the mouthpiece maker. Again, in the beginning, Joe's operation initially was 80% walk-in traffic , mainly local or statewide players, until word and availability spread.

    Toots ( or anyone ) - here my real question in all this

    Again, all this is just " food for thought " - I still don't recommend young players going mouthpiece surfing. but here's the question I'm alluding to, does a certain brand mouthpiece actually make a certain brand trumpet play better based on both companies logistics to each other initially in both lines developments? or does it really give the player more of the " Utopian trumpet sound " that they are trying to achieve, because of were they live regionally , a sound they desire to have, based in-part because thats the way the players they try to emulate and the player they hear repeatedly , play and sound to them ?

    ( My head just exploded - ouch !!)

    The Ghost

    Any comments ?
     
  6. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Hi Larry;

    Well, speaking strictly for myself, I was looking for a mouthpiece that would make playing the trumpet (range, endurance) "easier". I recall thinking that I really liked the Wick because of the "depth of sound"... but after a while I started to figure out that my endurace was suffering (no doubt pressure figured into that equation somehow).

    When I went to test/buy a Schilke I took along my Strad, plus the three last mouthpieces that I had been using (Wick 4, Bach 3C, Laskey 4B). I was somewhat horrified to find that I was terribly sharp with any of those mouthpieces on any four of the trumpets I was trying (X3, B1, B5, S32). The man running the store had me "extend" my lower jaw ever so slightly and the tuner popped right "into the green". (the benefits of finding someone who knows what they are doing!). He then worked me through his dealer Warburton kit and we settled on a 4MD/B10 (Seems I needed a large gap to "hang onto" the Schilke's lower resistance). I didn't buy the mouthpiece from him (the Mrs was going to make comment on the price of the horn as is!) but subsequently picked up a 4MC/B9 from Ebay.

    This worked for a few months but then I "discovered" the Sparx cornet pieces and fallen in love with the comfort of the rim on Ted's #4 (as well as the sound). So I discussed the situation with Bruce, telling him that I wanted a slightly "brighter" sound but also wanted a cleaner Bb down through G# below the staff. Bruce set me up with the 66*** and so far it's done what I wanted.

    I have looked and looked at shank lengths, measured the "inside length" of the receiver and calculated endgap with all of the trumpets I've owned. (that's why I'd like to see the exact position of the end of the leadpipe discretely scribed on the receiver somewhere.) I notice that very seldom is the shank length the same between any two manufacturers: an example is that the end gap on my B1 with the Warburton B9 was 5 mm! and with the Sparx is only 3 mm. Maybe it's an adaptation thing.... I don't know. Combine that with the possible variations in throat diameter, throat length, backbore shape, throat-backbore "transition", shank "rim" width, cup, blah, blah and blah. Yes, I like a nice, thick and rich "dark" sound. But I realized that's what the cornet is for (in my case...I know...there are players who want or need that sound out of a trumpet).

    So....to make a long story even longer, I was looking for specific "sound characteristics" (brighter); range considerations (don't give up high range but improve the bottom); comfort (always more endurance); and intonation (make the most of Schilke's built-in quality).

    Now, a fully qualified and thoroughly trained professional will undoubtedly be looking for much smaller "increments of improvement" or "type of sound" than what I was. But speaking strictly for myself, I don't necessarily think that a "dedicated mouthpiece" will make it's stable-mate trumpet play much better since there is still that wild card out there.... the player!
     
  7. tk

    tk New Friend

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    Feb 9, 2004
    Phila/NJ
    I think I agree with you... that the regional norm of trumpet timbre is the archetype. Also, what the major teachers in the area are saying is the "correct" sound. I'm a free-lancer now on the east coast, but spent a short time on the west. I started as a legit player, then saw the writing on the wall and am now doing jazz/commercial/show work. I've had the experience first-hand of being "looked down upon" on an east coast legit gig because I showed up with my Reeves/Calicchio set-up [yes I have a reeves piece as well]. It didn't matter that the cats playing in the rest of the section were out of tune whenever they changed registers, were splitting attacks and straining to make their Bach set-ups "work"... Don't you know they were doing it the "right way" [ and I'm talking free-lance gigs with so-called major symphony players].

    I didn't see this attitude when I lived in California. And more and more I'm seeing a lot more of the younger commercial guys on the east coast playing with whatever works for them and accepting the other set-ups [a lot more "west coast" type of set-ups are starting to show up on commercial gigs here]. The legit players just have too much tradition to unload and maybe even a fear of change.
     
  8. Larry Gianni

    Larry Gianni Piano User

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    Nov 11, 2003
    Los Angeles
    TK,

    Your are in good company with at least one east coast player , Dave Trigg plays his new " Dave Trigg " Calicchio with a custom Marc. mouthpiece ( it's on the Marc. Candoli Model sith different rim and larger backbore) He uses the same set-up whether he's playing lead for Natalie Cole or sitting in a Broadway pit. Also, talking about east coast and change, I talked to Gerry at Dillon music today about a vintage Calicchio they had and I was told a very well known local player bought it just Sat ( that will make my sife happy ) which surprise him because this guy usually buys NY's or Mt. V Bach's from the store.

    Also, about younger players , with the advent of better worldwide" trumpet " communication via internet, books, etc. and better and better equipment choices out there , younger players are not being " bullied " into traditional set-ups if they find it doesn't work for them as much as in the past. Sadly thou, with the lack of live music being performed on either coast, it's harder and harder to zero in on a " traditional sound " to emulate by anyone.

    Keep posting , like to hear from players about other area's of the globe

    Lg

    Note:

    Don't feel too bad about being different in your equipment - When W . Bergeron first stepped on the scene with a " Kanstul " trumpet in his hands, heads turned and certain noses went up in the air. Well, players are turning there heads for another reason now. Because Wayne is so dam good, they all want to know what he's playing so they can get one. Play great and you set the standard.
     
  9. MPM

    MPM Pianissimo User

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    Nov 10, 2003
    WOW !!! Once again a very simple question (post #1) turns into ... "something", I don't know what!

    To the orgianl poster: Hey if your GR 'piece is working for you "great" stay with it. However a certain amout of experimentation is not a bad idea.

    Sometime back I got to experimenting. Basicly tried several different manufacter's 'pieces, just all similar sizes. I sound like me regardless of the mpc, sad but true! I don't play my old Calicchio 1s-7 anymore,, but yes the Reeves worked very well on it, as well a few Marcikiewicz's, some Stork's ...

    Bottom line: You should have the idea of how you want / need to sound in your head. Pick the mpc that helps you get that sound the easiest. Plus, two other factors ... (1) You need to hear your self as best you can, and (2) your sound needs to project.

    Have Fun!
     
  10. Larry Gianni

    Larry Gianni Piano User

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    Nov 11, 2003
    Los Angeles
    MPM,

    Sorry - I'm guilty of adding the " I don't know what " to the mix.

    Wise words in your post also, keep sending me your wisdom and I'll try not to get off on a " Pie = MC squared " tangent to a good original question.



    LG
     

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