Major Breakthrough after Lesson with Pops

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by afp, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    I was pronouncing pwhooo. As I said above "you cannot pronounce buzz" This is buzzing: More Buzzing! - YouTube
    I belittle no one's individual style and especially Mr. Wise who is most excellent at buzzing and I hold in the deepest regard and who I has my most humble respect.



    I posted a video prior to this of exactly the muscles are used to produce the pwhoooo sound. This sound in no way comes close to producing a buzz (READ as producing NOT as pronouncing), as I even described it as a motor response that makes more of an upward turned smile. I am not sure what more is needed to convince you that it is my intent to be as informative as possible that there is AN ALTERNATIVE to buzzing.



    It has not been my intent to belittle any one individual's style nor intended to belittle any style in general. Seth, I am so sorry you feel I have belittled you. Especially you, who I trust and give high respect to among comments and thoughts here on TM. Yet I have endured much personal attack here in this thread in my effort to give another opinion of how to produce a sound that I do admit is not traditional and is "thinking outside of the box". I will go on record again to say that I feel "buzzing is overrated". It is not bad, but it if individuals believe that this is the only way to produce a sound, then they will be miss-informed.
     
  2. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi kehaulani
    Isn't this thread starting to take the fun out of disfunctional:
    Dr.Mark
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2014
  3. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Buzzing versus Phwoo

    What does phwooo provide that buzzing does not?
    1) Endurance - Using more muscle groups leads to less strain on individual muscle fiber which leads to more pronounced and enhanced muscle action and response
    2) Improved control - Air flow is better controlled with more freedom of orbicularis and less work and action of the orbicularis, again increasing endurance
    3) Unique and softer attack on notes (that can be modulated and controlled or augmented with tonguing).

    I particularly like the third aspect, as this is what helps provide for me a part of my unique voice, one that when heard by people here on TM such as Solar Bell, Tobylou, Cyper_Shake can say when they hear me "that sounds like gmonady". There are other aspects to our playing such as phrasing and accents of passages, that also helps to one to find a unique "voice".
     
  4. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Blaine over-reacted. But coming from such a renowned artist as yourself, a phrase like "...and it takes that nasty buzz away" is going to unnerve quite a few people. It unnerved me, and if that caused me to over-react too, then I apologise. Maybe it's just a matter of presentation. Your last paragraph presents a less black-and-white idea - that maybe there is a spectrum of techniques from a rich buzz to a 'sophisticated phwooo' that are not mutually exclusive and can be deployed as the musical style warrants. I for one am far more comfortable with that sort of idea.

    If that is the case, then it is indeed a very valuable insight, and one we can explore whilst still keeping a tight hold on our security blankets.
     
  5. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi G-man
    you stated:
    "Buzzing versus Phwoo
    What does phwooo provide that buzzing does not?
    1) Endurance - Using more muscle groups leads to less strain on individual muscle fiber which leads to more pronounced and enhanced muscle action and response"
    2) Improved control - Air flow is better controlled with more freedom of orbicularis and less work and action of the orbicularis, again increasing endurance
    3) Unique and softer attack on notes (that can be modulated and controlled or augmented with tonguing).
    -----
    Sorry Gman,
    I don't think you can find a person that had more endurance, flexibility or approach to tonguing than Mendez.
    Mendez buzzed the mouthpiece when he was first learning the trumpet and later in life his lip was terribly injured by a swinging door. Like most of us, he foolishly continued to play and the injured lip got worse. In fact it got to the point to where he couldn't play. Mendez went back home (Parent's home) to Mexico where a doctor took a red hot rod prod and burned out the infection from the base of the nose to the bottom of the top lip. The hole was large enough to hold a cigarette!! This freaked Mendez out. Of course this was not going to hold Mendez down but he had no idea how to start the long tough journey back to being (arguablly) the world's greatest trumpet player. Mendez tried everything and one day his Mom said "You know, you've been very disrespectful to your Dad, He's the one that taught you, right? Instread of asking everyone else for help, why not see if he can help you" Ralph then spoke to his Dad and his Dad said "I will help you pending you do exactly as I say, Only play when I say so and for as long as I say so." Ralph was then given a mouthpiece to buzz. What happened then was within a few months, Mendez was back to playing everything again.
    It's hard to hear a story (as told by Mendez from home movies) like that and say that buzzing is overrated.
    Different strokes for different folks. Who knows, in time maybe the phwoo method will be the preferred way but to my knowledge there's not enough data or advocates of distinction pushing this methodology. However, maybe in time. Something to ponder:
    All ideas go through three distinct stages
    1. The person is told that it's a dumb idea
    If the person does not give up their idea and continues to research it:
    2. The same people will ridicule the person and the person's idea
    If the person continues even after ridicule and it comes to pass that it is a good idea those same people will say:
    3. Well, it was obvious all along that it would work.
    Hope this helps
    Dr.Mark
     
  6. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    "... a doctor took a red hot rod prod and burned out the infection from the base of the nose to the bottom of the top lip."

    A Doctor? Really? Sounds more like a cow hand.
     
  7. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi Gzent,
    While I can't support the doctor's ability to wrangle steers. Mendez had heard about this doctor through another trumpet player who had a similar problem. There's a DVD that pops up on Ebay every now and then called Rafael Mendez Trumpet 8 Films on DVD. It's just fantastic and if you can find it, it's worth the price. I think I paid around 20.00 which included S&H.
    Dr.Mark
     
  8. kehaulani

    kehaulani Fortissimo User

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    Hawaian homey
    A couple of quickies:

    - I've already said that buzzing doesn't help me much. However, (harrumph), the sound produced on brass instruments is the result of vibrations between two lips. It's my understanding that that is a "buzz". No?

    - I saw that fight between Boom Boom Mancini and Du Ku Kim live. I don't think that's really a good subject for a joke.
     
  9. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi kehaulani,
    I saw that fight between Boom Boom Mancini and Du Ku Kim live.
    --------
    Thanks for bringing me back to my more human self.
    Dr.Mark
     
  10. shooter

    shooter Piano User

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    So......no buzzing can still produce a sound on a trumpet? I just tried to produce a tone by keeping my lips from buzzing and all I got was air. My first instructor told me "if you want to get drunk, you gotta get a buzz first. If ya wanna play trumpet, the same."
     

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