Discussion in 'TM Lounge' started by Solar Bell, Jul 18, 2005.

  1. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

    May 11, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    My Pet Peeve

    Why is it that when a person asks a question of Manny or Wilmer and they give a response, other people seem to think they can offer better or advice to the contrary??????

    The names of the discussion boards are MANNY 911! and WISE TALK!

    If I am asking the Principal Trumpet of major symphony a question, I want HIS advice.

    If I want to hear people dicuss something and throw out a bunch of ideas that work for them, I'll post in the lounge or ask a general discussion question.

    There is a reason these guys have their own boards.....
    Disagree if you must, but the askee didn't ask you!!!
    Haul your sorry butt to the lounge and write "Manny or Wilmer sure don't have a clue on this one".

    It's like going to and asking the countrie's best heart surgeon a question on vascular suturing and having your local dentist disagree with his answer... sure they both play the the doctor game, but I want the advice of the surgeon.

    In my house, if I ask Manny or Wilmer a question, I want advice from the Library, not the John.

    OK, I'm done for now.
    Have a nice day.

  2. Mikey

    Mikey Forte User

    Oct 24, 2003
    Amen, Chuck. My feelings exactly.

    (And these guys are giving free advice here. I know what Manny charges for a lesson. It is not cheap, but it is worth every penny).

    You want to read something sad, check out the "upper register tonguing" thread in Manny's forum. You will see what I mean............

  3. tpter1

    tpter1 Forte User

    Jan 12, 2005
    Northern New York
    A lone, humble man sat in the middle of a park, with only a pot, a spoon, some water, matches and a stone. He gathered the necessary items to build a fire from what he could find around the area.

    He lit his fire, and placed the pot in the fire. Into the pot went the water and the stone. The townspeople watched, in curiosity, the odd goings-on in the park. Finally, someone had the courage to approach and ask, "What are you doing?" The man replied, simply, "Making Stone Soup". "Well, that doesn't sound very good," was the response from the resident. "How about adding some salt?" "I don't have any". "Well, I have some. If I bring it, and I add it, can I have some of your soup?" And so it went; beans, a hambone, savory spices; fresh garden vegetables, sausage pieces, until the soup was complete.

    All the townspeople added ingredients to compliment each other's contribution. Someone baked a fine crusty bread, someone else brought bowls, another spoons, and another a ladle. The townspeople never had a better soup than the Stone Soup they ate that day.

    This adaptation of a children's story seems to fit, and is to me, why Manny's forum is such a great place. Not to say that Manny or Wilmer only have the barest of essentials (please don't misnterpret me there; their reputations and experience is tremendous) but that each of us contributing something worthwhile will produce something extraordinary.

    We need to reccognize, however, that with Manny's or Wilmer's stature, theirs is the final say. Unless we have studied with Vacchiano, or are a 30 year member of a major symphony, our words will not and should not compare. The articulation thread goings-on are, to me, awful, but Manny is handling it.

    Manny posted on this a few months ago, quite eloquently. If someone wants to disagree with someone who has Manny or Wilmer's experience, they had better be able to back it up with equal or more experience. And not on their forum, but either in the cage or via a pm outof respect for the stature these individuals have earned.
  4. Lawler Bb

    Lawler Bb Piano User

    Oct 25, 2003
    Milwaukee, WI

    Excellent post. I can't agree more.

  5. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN

    Ditto, big time!

    A really good way to ensure you don't progress to the next level in your career is by publicly challenging those already performing at higher levels.

    Disagreeing with Manny about playing the trumpet is like disagreeing with Michael Jordan on basketball, or Tiger Woods on golf. Only a fool would do so publicly.

    Furthermore, I think a few people are a bit too flip with the 'professional trumpet player' title around here. There's a universe of difference between making money playing in a wedding band and teaching in a private studio versus being a world renowned and respected principal trumpet of a major orchestra.

    Lets talk silly analogies for a moment, shall we? ....

    A man makes a living for 30 years painting houses and another man makes a living for 30 years restoring priceless works of art. They are both professional painters.

    A man makes a living for 30 years fixing brakes and mufflers at Midas and another man makes a living for 30 years building racing engines for Porshe. They are both professional auto mechanics.

    A man makes a living for 30 years writing users manuals for lawn mowers and another man makes a living for 30 years writing best selling novels. They are both professional writers.

    A man makes a living making burgers at McDonalds and another man makes a living making dinner at the Waldorf Astoria. They are both professional cooks.

    As one who is not 'making a living' with the horn it is ridiculous to me when these 'professionals' assume their opinion carries the same weight as a principal musician. Frankly, they are not demonstrating their wealth of knowledge but the obvious lack of respect for the real masters.

  6. Mikey

    Mikey Forte User

    Oct 24, 2003
    And the certain individual causing this uproar has a well-know track record of doing this same thing on other sites............

    He just does not know when to back off.
  7. rjzeller

    rjzeller Forte User

    Mar 7, 2005
    Rochester, MN
    Okay, I've been guilty of providing my own 'opinion' at times, but I usually do so only before ML has posted, or do so in a way that I think backs up his statements. In either case, I would never willing directly contradict his statements.

    Which is almost what that one poster did. ML gave a concise and excellent answer to the question, one which makes perfect sense to anyone who has a fundamental grasp of logic, and along comes this post that is completely contradictory to his point.

    He didn't SAY it, but he might as well have started the post off with "forget what Manny said, the real problems is you're not doing it right and only Gordon and Clark know the right way."

    Well...hell...what do we need Manny for? We have this other guy to set the record straight for us!

    And people wonder why Greg started the thread he did last week...same stuff. No respect for those who most deserve it.

    By the way, CW, nice reference to the John....


    ROGERIO Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 30, 2004
    This old post of mine relates to the current discussion...

    I have a feeling Manny and Wilmer could care less about these folks jumping their posts... these gents have nothing to prove to any of us. They are here to share their wealth of knowledge with those that ask and not to compete for best answers.

    It's really a matter of US being as respectfull as possible so that someone doesn't say something they would regret later and then have Manny or Wilmer bug out.

    If you need to chime in... how about beginning your post with... "when I tried [ ], this is what happened to me..." This way, it's clear you are sharing your experiences and not trying to negate anything Manny or Wilmer is saying.

    It's a matter of respect... [without placing your snoz up their butts] ;-)
  9. MatthewMiller

    MatthewMiller New Friend

    Jun 5, 2005
    This would probably be a good place to confess that I have jumped into responding to posts on Manny's forum before he responded. While I think I prefaced everything with "listen to what Manny says", I probably should've just waiting until he responded first. I'll definitely be more careful about that in the future.
  10. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

    Sep 29, 2004
    Once again, folks...

    I have absolutely no problem with anything what anyone has to say in my forum as long as:

    1)You're not defaming another person to elevate your point of view

    2)You don't state that yours is the only way without some sort of evidence to support it (example: we breathe in oxygen and we breathe out carbon dioxide. That's hard to argue against)

    3)If you have a different experience that worked well for you, well, say that! Then it can be taken for what it is, an opinion. Opinions are great... they show we're thinking about stuff.

    4)If you are snide or arrogant about an issue, be it horns, a style of playing, my mama's cooking you're going to get flamed. The freedom of speech thing works both ways, contrary to popular belief.

    You want to know the truth? I don't think John was trying to be anything but helpful but he did it in a way that was offensive to me and, apparently, others of you.

    I can't speak for Wilmer but I would wager that those rules are similar to what would maintain his comfort level in his forum.

    Was it stcman who said "read, re-read, edit and then decide whether you want to press 'submit'"? Good rules and I bet we'll all get along even better.


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