maybe the old way was better???

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Dave Mickley, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. Dave Mickley

    Dave Mickley Forte User

    Nov 11, 2005
    I have been playing in big bands around Indy since 1981, usually 3rd or 4th part with a few lead charts thrown in to help out the lead player from time to time. A couple of years ago I was invited to sub on the 2nd part in a big band made up of old guys who want to have fun. most played in the 50s, 60s and 70s and are decent players, I'm the young guy at 62. I was asked to play full time after about the 2nd. reh. and soon after was asked to split the lead book. after about a month they put me on the lead book full time, I'm not a lead player but enjoy the book. they have been getting new charts that put me out of my comfort zone, I'm good for a few high Cs and a high D or two but now the charts are consistantly G up to Eb above high C. I started working on my upper register but things seem to be working backwards, I'm losing endurance. I've been using the Thiecke method and the upper register out of the 1st Vizzutti book. When I was just doing long tones and the tech. studies in the Viz. book I had more endurance, think I need to go back to that and leave the high registar practice alone. anyone else ever experience this??
    p.s. I love playing my Chicago Benge but I seem to have more endurance with my Blessing
  2. jiarby

    jiarby Fortissimo User

    May 7, 2011
    you could just decline the offer and stay on 2nd.
  3. SteveRicks

    SteveRicks Fortissimo User

    Aug 15, 2009
    Apparently they think a lot of you if they have moved you to first and keep increasing the difficulty of charts. Why not tell them you are getting out of your comfort zone and see if they might let someone else to cover the lead book on just a couple charts (make sure they get the highest stuff so they can understand where you a coming from).
    While some of the pros will likely say "when it is done correctly it sholdn't matter" -but I have the same problem. High stuff kills my endurance. I love playing my Kanstul Chicago (almost identical to yours) but carried my Kanstl 1502 (callichio clone) to a recent long rehearsal for endurance reasons. Still, the Chicago is not a tiring horn.

    Best of luck. Again, sounds like they have confidence in you.
  4. vern

    vern Piano User

    Mar 4, 2008
    Yes, my endurance is less if I spend time practicing my range (which I do every day). I limit the amound of time I spend on high note practice and try to balance that with plenty of resting while playing high notes and plenty of low notes to "keep things loose".
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    At 62, there is still hope to increase range, but not on demand. When you have that book in front of you, emotional things happen that could increase tension. I would insist on just helping out. Let someone else carry the load. In the mean time, you can maybe get some lessons from a real lead player and see if you can stretch the comfort zone BEFORE making any commitments!
  6. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

    Oct 19, 2008
    Flinders Vic Australia
    I will be 74 at the end of this week, came back to trumpet 1985 after a gap of 35 years, my range was to G on top of the stave which was ok for playing in Church and 3rd in concert band. Since retiring in 2005 I am able to practice more and work on range. I have been able to increase my range by about 1 tone per year to a usable F above high C. I dont currently have a teacher, it is a 100km each way for a lesson.

    The three methods I have found useful are "Casual Double High C" by Bob Odneal, "Music Calesthenics for Brass" Carmine Caruso and 19/30 exercise from TH for endurance.

    2 weeks ago I played 2 one hour sets at a Jazz festival playing a mixture of 1st and 2nd parts as our 2 of our regular players were away. The only problem was my back as we had to stand to play.

    Regards, Stuart.
  7. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    If you have the time ,split your practicing into two separate sessions. Work on your range early in the day,then put the horn away until a few hours latter,then work on every thing else.It's best to work on range with fresh chops ,because bad habits such as too much pressure can sneak in your playing when your chops are tired.
  8. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

    Jul 1, 2011

    What mouthpiece?

    Oftentimes we read of people with "range and endurance issues" only to find they are playing nasty pieces like Bach 7C, 3C and worse the 1C.

    Most of lead playing range issues involves the ability to "cruise" at around High C/D for extended periods. You'll see a few High G's and F's and it is always great if you have those notes but it won't hold the band back if you have to take it down an octave. However the inability to stay solid for several sets at High D is a deal breaker.

    It sounds to me like you have sufficient range but not the stamina. Possibly you don't have tons of volume. Volume and stamina applied to range go together hand in glove. if you have volume? then you probably have endurance. Or at least the capability to develop endurance. Even at 62 years old.

    So find a fairly shallow piece and work into it slowly. I like to make my shallow piece my "main" m/piece and then play the larger ones only for "legit" gigs or music that requires the tonal quality and/or technique available only in a larger piece. Plus by making my shallow m/piece the "main" it allows me to clock more "flight time" in the upper register without hurting myself.

    And since I'm using the shallow/lead piece as my main it insures that my upper register will always be controlled and accurate. Surprisingly I don't find it awkward at all to shift down to the larger pieces when called for. Not at all.
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I do it the other way around as the symphonic side is my bread and butter. Switching is not a big issue if we do it enough. With age however, I have found that I need a bit more time to prepare. Most recently I had a dance competition on Saturday night with a big band. We played 45 min competition/15 minutes dinner music from 8-midnite and then 2 1/2 hours of public dancing. The next night I had an Arutjunian Concerto. Coming back down from the lead playing was really tough.
  10. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    I am going to throw a few thoughts out..
    Loss of range ... if I spread my embrouhure, trying to get a big sound I lose register and endurance. I am not sure what horn you are playing but that Benge ( which is a great instrument) might be a big horn ... speculating here.. so if anyone has info on that I think a bright horn helps so you don't have to work too hard to cut through the fray.
    I do practice range excercise.. the Vizzutti's but I try not to think of them as such. I am less likely to use pressure doing so. I try to keep my face relaxed and corners set. If I am playing it right, I should be able to drop down into the lower register and maintain a full tone.
    So the more controlled I play the better my endurance... and the quicker my chops recover.

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