Maynard at his best.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by rbdeli, May 12, 2009.

  1. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    1,869
    210
    Oct 16, 2008
    Had you started out with those words I think the confusion would have been cleared up. I suspect people are reacting to your assertion that:

    "By 1980, Maynard was only 20% the trumpet player he used to be".

    Being past your physical "prime" is one thing, but saying that Maynard was a shadow of his former self (if he lost 80% of what made him the Boss) by 1980 is a pretty bold statement.
     
  2. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

    526
    3
    May 8, 2009
    CO
    I would guess that at age 70, John Elway will be 20% the football player he was in his prime. How does that take away from what made him one of the greatest?

    To give you some perspective on where I'm coming from, I've spent my entire life defending Maynard. When I went to Berklee College of music in 1980-1981, guys used to say Maynard was a joke who couldn't play jazz and just liked to screech high notes. I took a few of my vintage Maynard CDs to class one day and blew everyone away, including the teacher.
    They never heard Maynard play a jazz solo. When I hear Maynard's last 4 or 5 CDs, it reminds me that this is what young people are basing Maynard's playing on. They don't know what kind of trumpet player he used to be in his prime.. Heck, I have a couple of Maynard solos on valve trombone and superbone that STILL blow me away.

    I am very defensive of Maynard's legacy, and his last few albums don't do justice to the brilliant player he was.


     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,955
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    I guess we must always consider the source.

    rbdeli, perhaps it has not occurred to you that what your frame of reference could be very incomplete. I am going to let go here. This is the part of the internet that really irks me. Just about anything can be written regardless of how ridiculous.

    I take your comments to be very meanspirited as you try and reduce a musical whole to parts that you obviously do not understand. If you had heard the "late" Boss - even in his last couple of years, you could not have posted the trash that you did.

    I feel very sorry for you!
     
  4. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

    526
    3
    May 8, 2009
    CO
    I am sorry that we cannot have a difference of opinion without you getting angry and feeling that I am trashing whom I consider to be the greatest trumpet player of all time. Basically, you are telling me that Maynard never aged - he had no prime. A age 77 he was just as good as he was at age 47, right? Is this your take?

    If so, you should be able to point me to recent recordings and solos to prove it. I am a very open minded individual. I won't judge style - only physical ability. Please point me to some recordings and I'll listen and compare against this 'ridiculous' notion I have about Maynard's playing ability in earlier days.
     
  5. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

    7,070
    4,661
    Jan 30, 2009
    Melbourne Australia
    Hi RBdeli,
    I was not indicating you are mean-spirited towards MF; and I think talking about different eras and styles is good and healthy. You mention about comparing age 77 to being as good at 47 or in early 20's. This is the point I was making, and probably that has got some heckles up.

    It would be silly to expect any athlete to be able to match his previous best from 5 decades earlier. That's where you are missing the point.

    It is the overall package, and just to be in the game after 5 decades would be an achievement. For MF he continued to compete and lead at the top levels, influencing, motivating, supporting generations of players and fans; and his development has been the gift to us all. I personally got a little frustrated during the spiritual/indian period; but hey, MF gained more and came back with the stronger commercial side. His influence on trumpet playing cannot be understated.

    There is a good thing to remember "Age shall not weary, nor the years condemn...we will remember them" You are cutting close to the bone with some out of text comments.

    You are clearly a Maynard fan, and have a huge respect... keep the whole carreer of MF in perspective. There are a lot of people who have worked and played with the Boss, and try to understand their perspectives.

    If you are 47 years old, then look at what he was playing at that age, and that will help to put his ability into your perspective.

    In any case my thoughts on the issue you first raised; I was amazed when I first heard him in my teens (1970s), and I am still jaw-dropping impressed with what and how he played right at the end. Different yes, but MF distinctively. I cannot say one is better for me.
     
  6. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

    526
    3
    May 8, 2009
    CO
    I agree with your
    comment. Maynard is Maynard, and whatever he played in his last days neither adds nor subtracts from it.

    The simple truth I'm getting at:
    To not acknowledge that Maynard Ferguson was light years better in his prime then when he played his last note is to grossly forget what kind of amazing, heroic player he really was. It undercuts his talent, in my opinion.



     
  7. RGood

    RGood Piano User

    Age:
    66
    283
    1
    Apr 20, 2008
    Deep in the heart of TX
    I first heard Maynard in 1969 at the Academy of Music in Philly - did a double header with Herbie Mann - that show is still the standard for me - all acoustic. And balance!

    I've seen Maynard perform so many times I lost count - and yes he changed - but always the consummate musician and performer. I find some of his early recordings raw - that raw energy of youth - and maybe less polished - but absolutely amazing. And again he stands out not just as a musician but as a performer and stage presence.

    How that man managed to live on the road all those years and keep his style music alive for us still amazes me. He kept bringing in new generations - and always made time to meet with people afterward - one of my fondest moments was when I got to introduce my son to him after a show in Ft. Worth at the Bass Hall.

    Here's to the Boss.
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,955
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    My argument is whether we can reduce music to particular physical attributes or not. I consider this approach stupid as an artist is the sum of many things. Maynards playing got more mature with age, just like any other world class musicians. We are the sum of many factors, even if the bean counters are in fashion these days.
    If someone is not capable of seeing how Maynard GREW with age, I can't help them. The stupidity of claiming that a world class musician got "light years worse" is just plain ignorant. Even the first hand reports from people like Keith Fiala haven't helped this guy review his position. I guess blindness just remains that. Sickening!
     
  9. RGood

    RGood Piano User

    Age:
    66
    283
    1
    Apr 20, 2008
    Deep in the heart of TX
    I think Maynard helped us all grow with him - with each new album - and each new band - and each years tour. Always incredible energy and connection - with the horn, with each member of the band and with the audience - right up to the end.
     
  10. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

    746
    148
    Sep 20, 2007
    Los Angeles
    I think it's easy to slam our old heros based on what our memories provides us against present day performance. There's a world class composer I know who felt that Maynard's playing was so below his earlier capabilities that he should have been ashamed and cited the comparitive work with Wayne B. on his Maynard / Waynard cut. Well, I think it's my old friend who should be ashamed.

    Ed
    MySpace.com - Ed Mann - 52 - Male - LA, California - www.myspace.com/jazzlips
     

Share This Page