Maynard at his best.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by rbdeli, May 12, 2009.

  1. richtom

    richtom Forte User

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    What sticks in my craw is the "20% of what he used to be" statement.
    How can that exact percentage be quantified? There are times it can be, such as in the instance of a major league pitcher. Lets say a great pitcher in his 20s possesses a fastball that consistantly hits 100 mph. As the pitcher gets older, he begins to lose a bit off the once nearly unhittable fastball. If he loses 5%, it is still at a quick 95 mph, but is now easier to catch up to. If he loses another 5%, it is now at a very hittable 90 mph. The total amount he lost is only 10%. Lose 80% and he is at a grand speed of 20 mph! If the pitcher has the skill to make adjustments as he loses velocity, the pitcher can still be dominant and a big time winner.
    The great Bud Herseth, a great friend of Maynard's and who also stated that he thought Maynard was the greatest brass player of the 20th century, admitted that as he got older he didn't quite have the endurance he had in his 40s, but he made the adjustments needed to perform at his incredible level. Maynard did exactly the same thing.
    Rich Tomasek
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    This rating stuff is just stupid.
    What we like or don't like is personal. A listener can say I only get 20% of the enjoyment compared to xxx.
    For somebody to place percentages on artists, well, I guess I better not say what I think.........................
     
  3. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    Rowuk,

    I love reading your informative posts on this board, but I think you are getting a little bit riles up for no reason. Perhaps, your sentimentality towards Maynard in his older years is making you a tad defensive?
    And on the other hand, perhaps I'm not appreciating his style in his older years as much as I should. I can admit that, okay? I'll even play his latest CD a few more times and try to develop that appreciation a bit more. Maybe I'm not hearing some qualities about his playing that you do. I am very open minded about these things.

    Of course, musicality is not reduced to physical attributes. But the trumpet, is undeniably a very physical instrument. To say that Maynard could play just as good as at age 75 as 35 or 45 or even 55 is being stubbornly defensive. Obviously, a musicians style ages like fine wine, and one gets smarter about music with age, but you still gotta have the tools to get the most out of your craft. When Sinatra lost his voice was he any less of an artist? Of course not, but could he sing as good as he did when he was in his 40's? Of course not.

    I will stand by my original statement: In his older age, Maynard was 20% the physical trumpet player he was in his prime. That DOES NOT make him any less the musician or artist or legend. Never said it did.Never said music was a physical art, alone, either. To not recognize Maynard in his prime is to under-rate his legacy.

    I will say this again:
    Maynard ruled, even long after he lost his best playing chops. Enough said?


     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  4. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    It's a personal judgement, and it's my opinion that Maynard was 5 times the trumpet player in 1960 as he was in 2005. At the same time, I recognize he was every bit the musician, artist and legend he ever was when he took his very last breath.

    In some ways, I feel like the one who should be offended at you guys for not recognizing this. It feels as though you are not giving Maynard his due by not recognizing how much greater he played in his younger days. It seems to me as though you are under-rating the talent and technique he had while in the prime of his life. We all have a prime and in most crafts our prime does not occur in the latter days of our lives, due to the physical aspects required. Is Doc a better player at age 80 than age 40? If the best Doc or Maynard sounded was in 2005, that's an insult to both of their legacys, IMO.

    Lastly, let's not forget that this is a matter of personal opinion. We can respectfully disagree, without accusing one another of attacking the man's legacy. That accusation is as ridiculous as anything else I've heard on this board.



     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Not defensive. No need to be. My playing is also not worse than it was 30 years ago.

    What is not getting though to you is the fact that incredible players that were close to Maynard do not share your "wisdom". They were also amazed and inspired right up until the end. They got the FIRST HAND STORY! Their eyes are open to the reality that chops, musicality and presentation are all part of the big picture. You are simply stuck on YOUR idea that Maynards early work was his best playing. I think that is based like I said in my earlier post that you just do not accept his later jazz/rock commercial ventures as being equal to his early jazz years. The world disagrees with you, but that is not our problem. Ignorance is sometimes bliss.

    Maynard's career spoke for itself. Your comments also speak for you as do mine for me. Your need for "ratings" shows me all that I need to know - that you do not have a clue - not even 5%. Enough said.
     
  6. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    You're right, Rowuk. It's not getting through to me. I guess my ears are just not as wise, mature and sophisticated as yours. That's why I asked you to point me to some recordings. Please give me some links or point me to some modern recorded solos of Maynard's modern playing days so I can hear and compare. Convince me.

    By the way...Personally, my own playing is better than it was 30 years ago after I've practiced a few weeks, but I'm no Maynard, and I would venture to guess, neither are you. :D

    I will also tell you that I have a few friends who played with Maynard (one of them lead trumpet) who agree with me on this 110%. Like me, they grew up listening to Maynard in his prime and they acknowledge that Maynard was well past his prime when they joined his band. So, I guess it just depends on who you talk to.

    Could it be that this is a matter of opinion?
    I think I've been nice to you - don't see why you feel the need to get angry and resentful.











     
  7. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

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    Music is an art, not a sport....
    Maynard was always at HIS best.
     
  8. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    Maynard was at his best for his age at every stage of his development. But Maynard at 75 couldn't play the trumpet like Maynard at age 25, 25, 45 or 55.



     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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  10. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    I guess you define monologue as disagreement because that's all this is. I listen and reply to each of your comments as you do mine. Disagreement doesn't equal a monologue.

    Why do you bring up the Chameleon album? Maynard was still at the top of his game back then. That was 1974-75. Loved his playing on Gospel John, Way We Were, Superbone meets Badman, La Fiesta. Can't Get Started. Those aren't all jazz tracks, but i still love them and Maynard could still play the full range and dynamics.

    You have a mistaken premise that my opinion of Maynard's playing is based on his style of music. Not true at all. It's based on his chops.

    I've read both the Washington Post and Downbeat Articles you posted. What I really wanted you to do is point me to a particular trumpet solo that compares with his earlier work. I'll go home and listen to it.

    That's going to be hard to do, because Maynard didn't feature himself as much on his newer CDs - For good reason, he didn't have the playing chops he once had.
     

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