Maynard Ferguson Range

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpettrax, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Take note: Rowuk DOES believe in the significance in forward and receded jaw. There are several body use issues that are important. More important is the player behind the jaw. Not every players face geometry is suitable for one or the other approach. Without working personally with the player, I will not make any recommendations like this. As far as I am concerned the internet is very dangerous when it comes to embouchure.

    Local, I really do not like words being put in my mouth. I don't know why you feel so threatened. You seem bent on arguing with me for the sake of arguing, but still have offered no reason why any player should consider this type of switch - and if they consider it what can be expected. You do not mention any of the risks.

    This is like driving fast as a teenager - the statistics catch up with reality very quickly. I don't mess around with players blindly like this.



    You wanted debate, now answer the questions: where are the players and charts? Or is criticizing me all that the debate should be?
     
  2. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    Hey, might I suggest -- that you two either stay on topic -- or PLEASE open your own thread for the debate of the year on such topics --- that may very well be more informative if (one or the other of you two -- Local and Rowuk) selected a particular topic for debate. ie. forward or receded jaw, and then start your own thread -- PERHAPS you could each have quite a following in your respective camps of thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey KT,

    sorry! I should have taken other action sooner. The situation is "regulated" for a while.
     
  4. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    I guess that is good news. but that reminds me of some of the things I have read about Maynard --- in that his methods in his band --- was to promote the growth of the individual --- both musically, and personally. To always strive for a "great show" --- but the individual band member always had access to "Maynards Door" for any questions, concerns, or to "just hang out with the Boss". --- and I believe that inspired many "offshoots" of professional musicians -- that otherwise might not have ventured out of their own (ie. Eric Myrashiro, Keith Fiala, to name just a couple).
     
  5. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

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    Seeing the recent discussion....

    My loud range (which, consistently, is only a high C#) is not far off from my quiet range (goes up to a high F/F#....). There's another guy with the same range as me, but he can play up to a DHC quietly. I guess that guy has much better embouchure technique, then? In other words, more usable range potential based solely on the embouchure (ignoring all other factors for a moment)?

    That gets me thinking.... is it easier to expand one's quiet range, or one's loud range? (It probably depends on the player) Does it matter whether to practice quiet high notes or loud ones, given that you don't bust your chops? My teacher tries to get me to expand my range by practicing lip slurs (e.g. Colin's) which are to be played loudly, but it seems that I actually get more success with my ranging by doing simple Clarke #1 exercises (played softly, of course) going above high C..... since he's supposed to be the wise guy, I just don't know what to do. Guess I'll do a little of both.

    Of course I know musicality, etc. are far more important than range. And, I know that relaxation, proper breathing, and so forth are likely the bigger factors leading to range/power/endurance. I just see too many great trumpet players who can't really play above high C, including one that recently joined the master's program at Northwestern University.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Haste,
    above high C what we play is the sum of our body use, breathing, chops and brains. It is not as simple as tweak the face and become a lead player. It is impossible to ignore any aspect of the human state. No embouchure unlocks the upper register unless it also integrates the rest of what is happening in your body.

    All of the claims that "unlock" the upper register have proven to be hogwash. If it were possible, we would have bands playing charts never before possible, scores of trumpet players tearing up the market. Where are they? I can't find them either. That is not to say that each player reaches his full physical potential. At the end of the day, talk is cheap and the internet has not proven to be a range builder because the teacher does not "see" what the body is doing.

    In my experience, the fastest way to build range is to stop gigging for 6 months to a year and really focus on getting body use, breathing and the face integrated.
     
  7. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    and that leads us back to patience, perserverance, and dedication to replicating the fundamentals of trumpet playing -- over, and over, and over again --- practice!!! -----but sometimes that doesnt' seem like as much fun -------but after 1,000's of hours it does pay dividends in -- range, consistency, and muscicality and such!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  8. Janet Lee

    Janet Lee New Friend

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    I have met many professional trumpet players who could not play above High C although they admitted that they wanted a better range.

    One was a member of a professional orchestra, a "legit" classical player for many years, who admitted that he could not play a particular note above High C, so when he performed the piece for us he had to take that particualr passage down an octave.

    Which means that thousands of hours of diligent practice will not significantly increase range if there is even one wrong playing detail that is standing in the way.

    It can be as small a detail as moving the mouthpiece slightly higher or lower on the embouchure.

    But the most common obstacle is trying to play the high notes too loudly and with too much mouthpiece pressure.
    One's highest notes should be played softly and without excess mouthpiece pressure.
    That strengthens the embouchure and facilitates proper muscle memory for eventually playing higher.
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The "professionals" problem is that they can't/won't take the time to sort things out. We need to keep in mind that the human state is based on HABITS and they are learned over time. To break habits we need even more time than we invested to learn the bad ones. A six month sabbatical would give even the working professional a chance to modify their behaviour. Evolution instead of revolution probably would make the most sense to keep the player from developing insecurity.

    If they DON'T keep house, bad playing habits will catch up and things will not get esier with age.
     
  10. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

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    I just listened to that Bud Brisbois high note demonstration. WHOOOOOAAAAAAAAA.... I've never heard such solid notes above Double D! Years ago, when I was new to trumpet, I heard some screaming trumpet player do "Colors of the Wind". I think he only went up to several high Fs, but for some reason my mind "transposed" his playing to DOUBLE high Fs, crystal clear and ferguson-like. I actually went on a wild goose chase trying to find either that recording according to my memory (which was again, an octave too high!) or to find somebody who could at least pull it off AT ALL. I never was able to. Until I heard that Bud Brisbois video, that is!

    In my experience, the fastest way to build range is to stop gigging for 6 months to a year and really focus on getting body use, breathing and the face integrated.

    I've thought about this, and I wondered if I was correct about that. But hearing you say it makes me doubt less! Some of my best times of improvement have been when I was playing very little.... I wasn't even taking lessons! (not really my range, though) But thanks for that comment. Looks like I should do just that, but take lessons, too....
     

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