Metronome

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by xjb0906, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    You are playing too damn loudly to train anything. If your practice with stuff that you NEED to work on is louder than a standard metronome, you need to fix that problem - not create further ones. Playing loudly adds a measure of force that limits the fine motor skills to clean up our act. Playing loudly also confuses our brain with all sorts of additional information that prevents us from fixing problems.

    Hearing loss has nothing to do with it. If you want to get better, you need an approach to accomplish that goal. If your rhythm is not solid, loud will only make the repair much more difficult!

     
  2. xjb0906

    xjb0906 Piano User

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    Really???? How can you say that without being at one of my practice sessions? I get what you are saying and agree that playing too loudly in practice is not good. That is not the case with me. I practice all dynamic levels at every practice. I can play louder than most but I can play softer than most too.
     
  3. Lyndon

    Lyndon New Friend

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    I use a Matrix MR-800 and have found it loud enough both for trumpet and organ practice. Type in 'Matrix MR-800 Quartz Metronome' on Amazon. It's a great piece of kit.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them think.

    Getting better is NOT playing though stuff. In order to get better, things have to connect - ears, mind, body. The brain actually does try to compensate for the things that it hears but does not like. XJB is only on transmit in his posting in this thread, and analyzing what he wrote shows me that there are important connections that have not been made.

    It is natural to assume that what we are doing is right and that if we can't hear the metronome, we should just buy a louder one. That works if your goal is to follow. Every click of that loud metronome is like beating a dog - or compensation for not concentrating on the real issue at hand. Rhythm comes from within once we have learned it. The more force applied, the more dependent that we become. Only when we really have built the foundation of our playing, does making music lock in.

    The process is simple: the first note that we play is more or less on auto pilot - we blow into the horn and a sound comes out. Our ears hear that sound and feed the info to the brain that sends correction signals to the body to change chops, breathing, tongue. If we use the excuse of "practicing with dynamics" we are just BSing ourselves into not paying attention to the quiet messages that tell us BIG things about our playing. The result is face time, but little real improvement in the things that we cannot do.

    The choice is ours: keep making the same mistakes, or solve them and go on to the next level. Crappy rhythm is the main reason that players do not get invited back.

    I do not really need to attend many players practice sessions. Their posts often contain the same mistakes that they make in life and behind the trumpet. What I offer is generally very easy so there should be no reason to argue. They do because they did not slow down and think about what I said. They ran with what they THOUGHT that I said. That makes helping where it counts much tougher.
     
  5. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    It's funny, when I'm in time I hear less of the metronome than if I'm a little off. Similarly, when I'm in time during a gig, I hear less of the rest of the section individually, than when I'm off time - I guess it makes sense based on this thread.
     
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  6. trumpetpr

    trumpetpr New Friend

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    I also have a korg tm40 as well. You have two options to solve your problem: use a headphone connected to the port available on the tm40. Also you can use a 2.5mm to rca plug cable from the headphone port on the tm40 to amplified computer speakers (I personally use this setup) you will be satisfied with volume as you can have the beat as loud as you want. Good luck
     
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  7. xjb0906

    xjb0906 Piano User

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    "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them think.

    Getting better is NOT playing though stuff. In order to get better, things have to connect - ears, mind, body. The brain actually does try to compensate for the things that it hears but does not like. XJB is only on transmit in his posting in this thread, and analyzing what he wrote shows me that there are important connections that have not been made.

    It is natural to assume that what we are doing is right and that if we can't hear the metronome, we should just buy a louder one. That works if your goal is to follow. Every click of that loud metronome is like beating a dog - or compensation for not concentrating on the real issue at hand. Rhythm comes from within once we have learned it. The more force applied, the more dependent that we become. Only when we really have built the foundation of our playing, does making music lock in.

    The process is simple: the first note that we play is more or less on auto pilot - we blow into the horn and a sound comes out. Our ears hear that sound and feed the info to the brain that sends correction signals to the body to change chops, breathing, tongue. If we use the excuse of "practicing with dynamics" we are just BSing ourselves into not paying attention to the quiet messages that tell us BIG things about our playing. The result is face time, but little real improvement in the things that we cannot do.

    The choice is ours: keep making the same mistakes, or solve them and go on to the next level. Crappy rhythm is the main reason that players do not get invited back.

    I do not really need to attend many players practice sessions. Their posts often contain the same mistakes that they make in life and behind the trumpet. What I offer is generally very easy so there should be no reason to argue. They do because they did not slow down and think about what I said. They ran with what they THOUGHT that I said. That makes helping where it counts much tougher. "

    The fact is that I am improving in all aspects of my playing and I get called back. I started as a sub with a big band. Now I am a member with a few solos. I am now on the board of directors for the Symphonic Band I play in. I get calls to play in other groups off of suggestions of folks that I play with. Save your rant for someone else. I post in this forum to gain helpful information not to get picked on by someone that has no personal knowledge of my playing. Well informed constructive criticism is welcome. What you are doing isn't.
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Why can't you simply try a couple of weeks of soft playing? You asked a question and got an answer that has far more benefits than just timing. Your immediate response was negative. That simply does not make sense. The whole Clarke technical studies book is written at pp for a reason and it wasn't because of hearing the metronome.
     
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  9. xjb0906

    xjb0906 Piano User

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    Actually I have started doing more playing at pp dynamics when playing exercises. When playing working on problem sections in a piece of music I try to play the dynamics marked. The whole reason I went to using the metronome in the first place was to improve my time keeping skills. It has helped a lot.
    I read a lot of negativity into your repsonses. I apologize for taking it the wrong way. Thanks for the input.
     
    coolerdave likes this.
  10. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    I am coming into this a little late. I personally use a Seth Thomas.. always have. I have used a small digital but I thought it was a little slow moving the tempo up and down. My Andriod work pretty good and it has a click option but I still prefer the analog one.
    I think the thing to keep in mind is the purpose of the metronome. Like Ted said.. when playing in tempo you don't hear the metronome .. if you slow down then you will hear it and it will sound like it is rushing and the other way around if you are rushing. You have to really train yourself to hear the beat ... feel the beat and then keep the beat.
    As with most things on trumpet.. you start out at a slow tempo and then work up as you can. I rarely use a metronome when working on songs or performance pieces. Perhaps if I have a difficult passage that I need to woodshed but that's about it. I use it for technical studies and exercises. If you are having an issue with playing a passage and it's because it's too hard technically then of course you probably going to lose the tempo but not because you don't hear the beat.
    If you have the equipment you might try playing along with a sound track and then listen to how you do tempo wise.
    There is a skill set required to play with a metronome. If you are tensing up and getting frustrated well then playing softly is probably a great way to reduce the tension.
    Just my take on it .... just remember the metronome is your friend :)
     
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