minor TR300 rebuild questions

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by simonstl, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. simonstl

    simonstl Pianissimo User

    129
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    Nov 25, 2008
    Dryden/Ithaca, NY
    I've been enjoying the used TR300 I got for my birthday a month ago, building my embouchure back again slowly. It's been 24 years, so the memories are there but not the muscles.

    The trumpet sounds great (to me). When we tested it in the store, it sounded and felt better than anything except the Bach Strad they had, and the price leap there was more than I'd wanted.

    I've had a few troubles with it, though, all with the valves. For a while I was using valve oil constantly, though changing to Hetman's "classic" from the watery stuff that came in the cleaning kit helped a lot. The one problem that's continued after that is slow motion on valves returning to the up position, making for strange sounds, especially on slurs.

    I ordered the TR300 rebuild kit from The Bandroom, mostly for the springs, though new pads will be nice too.

    I replaced all of the springs and the action has definitely improved. The springs are a lot noisier, though, and I ended up putting some slide grease on them to quiet them a bit. On the third valve, I also replaced the nylon piece, and I'm not sure that was wise. The old one was kind of worn, but this one might not be worn enough.

    Going forward, my main questions are:

    * Should I replace the other nylon retainers?

    * Will the springs just quiet down on their own?

    I was also looking into replacing some valves, but at $91.60 each (the Bandroom - haven't looked around yet), I'll wait on that and see how this goes - so far, so good!

    (And why are Bach Strad replacement valves $10 less than TR300 valves?)

    Thanks!
     
  2. Darthsunshine

    Darthsunshine Mezzo Forte User

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    Jul 19, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    Have you talked to the folks at the store you bought it from? Especially if this is a new horn they should be willing to help you. If not, then you really should have a good repair tech take a look at it.
     
  3. simonstl

    simonstl Pianissimo User

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    2
    Nov 25, 2008
    Dryden/Ithaca, NY
    I talked to them a bit - the suggestion about changing valve oil came from them.

    I'm not particularly disappointed in the trumpet, and knew it was well-used when I got it. I'm also pretty much a DIY kind of guy when I can be, so I'm not inclined to think it's their responsibility.

    (If it had been a new trumpet, yes, I'd be down there with this. But it pretty clearly wasn't!)
     
  4. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    5,010
    1,802
    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    What makes you think it's the springs?

    I'd be more suspicious of the inside felts. Also, make sure the top caps are threaded on all the way and the other threaded parts - buttons, stems, spring housing, are also tight.
    veery
     
  5. Darthsunshine

    Darthsunshine Mezzo Forte User

    736
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    Jul 19, 2008
    Seattle, WA
    Glad you like the horn. DIY is fine... so long as you can accept the cost of failure (Repair, replacement, or retirement of the whole horn). I've got several old cornets with various valve issues that I've messed around with. I'm sure others know more, but here's my limited understanding of certain valve issues gleaned from my own well-used horns:

    >Could be worn springs, which benefits from replacing the worn springs(You're addressing that).
    >Could be some sort of buildup on the surface of the valve or inside of the valve casing. Best case it's just dirt that will benefit from cleaning... several cleanings. It can help to clean the whole horn too. Worst case it's some sort of corrosion (visible or invisible), which might improve with lapping: Taking some sort of abraisive compount and gently polishing down the high spot (Toothpaste < Brasso). The down side is that lapping is irreversible from a DIY standpoint, and can lead to...
    >Could be excessive wear creating too large a gap between the valve surface and the inside of the valve casing. This allows condensation from your breath to build up in the gap. When this mixes with most valve oils it creates a viscous goop that causes valve performance to drop... sometimes a lot. I know of no DIY approach to this issue.
    >Could be the valve got bent from being dropped or the stems got bent by a student trying to stuff their music folder into the case on top of the horn. Again, I know of no DIY approach to this issue.

    The problem is that valves are touchy, and there are plenty of tech's who screw them up worse trying to fix them. So after making a few runs at simple self-diagnosis/repair, it's good to move on to a professional experienced with valve work.

    Hope this helps; good luck; and most of all enjoy your comeback :D
     
  6. simonstl

    simonstl Pianissimo User

    129
    2
    Nov 25, 2008
    Dryden/Ithaca, NY
    Excellent point. The sound had kind of a ringing to it, which is why springs made sense. I also wondered about some scraping sounds on the third valve, which I figured were the nylon piece wearing itself in. But I don't really know for certain, and I'll certainly double check all of these.

    (The slide lube on the springs does seem to have quieted things, but of course I had to unscrew and rescrew the threaded parts to do that, so maybe it's something else.)
     
  7. simonstl

    simonstl Pianissimo User

    129
    2
    Nov 25, 2008
    Dryden/Ithaca, NY
    I'm willing to mess around with valve oil and springs - I remember replacing springs, pads, etc. even back in 8th grade, so that doesn't worry me. I don't think I'm going to go anywhere near the danger zone, but of course it can sneak up on people.

    The new springs definitely seem to help. I think the main challenge here is just that the horn is thoroughly used, and there is some resulting wear. I don't see any sign of bending, dents, or other damage. Right now I'm hoping that this minor level of rebuilding - no dangerous fun with metal - and a few good cleanings will make it work.

    Today, at least, it looks like it's headed the right direction.

    Thanks,
     
  8. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

    Age:
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    Aug 28, 2005
    Grand Rapids, Mi.
    I've had a few troubles with it, though, all with the valves. For a while I was using valve oil constantly, though changing to Hetman's "classic" from the watery stuff that came in the cleaning kit helped a lot. The one problem that's continued after that is slow motion on valves returning to the up position, making for strange sounds, especially on slurs.



    As a staunch advocate of Hetmans valve oils I commend your choice os brand name. My problem, especially with your complaint of slow returning valves is that you chose the extremely viscous 'Classic' grade. The only time that I use the 'Classic' oil is in horns that have almost totally worn out valve pistons. In all other horns I use #1 or #2. If the pistons of your valves are not totally worn down to the brass that they are made from, with the plating all gone, try #1. If you experience periodic stiction of the valves on their return stroke, a very small drop of 'Classic' added to what is already on the piston should provide enough gap filling to free up your valves quite nicely. Whatever you do, don't, under any circustances use any form of abrasive on your valves. That will only increase the piston to wall clearance, destroying the valves completely.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  9. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

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    May 4, 2007
    Greensboro, NC
    have you given your horn a good bath. the first thing I would do is clean it. even a very tiny piece of dirt or lint will "gum" your valves. until you do this changing oils, etc. may not do any good. if you need instructions on how to do this, I can send you my "how to care for and feed your trumpet" paper. [email protected]
     
  10. oohhh yeah

    oohhh yeah Pianissimo User

    244
    2
    Nov 23, 2008
    B.C. Canada
    I recommend you use Blue juice. I have a TR300 myself, and my valves are amazing. It feels sooo nice. It even feels better than the valves on my friend's Yamaha Xeno.
     

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